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A look at the12'-13' NFL draft

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  • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft



    [quote user="nycsportzfan"]Loved what merril hodge had to say today on Mike and Mike.. He was talking about the Pats , and brought up how overrated the Combine and all the stuff we try and decipher to decide if these players are big enough and fast enough, and how they move up because they ran a tenth of a second faster then this guy, and how how guys move up RD's over a bench press...etc...etc He then goes on to say look at Danny Woodhead, Deion Branch, benjarvus green ellis, Wes Welker... He goes on to say, they may not be the biggest, strongst or fastest, but they know how to play football, and there reliable and thats why the pats are so good, they don't drop stupid pass's that any moe thats played a snap of football would catch.. They don't run out of bounds when the first down markers a foot away, they just know how to play football..

    How true is that? U see so many Freaks of nature, and see them drop the easiest of catches and make the stupidest of mistakes, and u think, man so what if the guys fast or whatever, hes dumb and not consistent, is all his mistakes and drops and whatever worth a big play, here and there?


    Look at how many teams passed over Ahmad Bradshaw(albeit some charechter concerns).. Probably becasue he wasen't the speediest of backs and not speedy and small, supposedly equals, no success in the nfl.. Well, guess what? The guys insane! He knows how to play football, and u don't have to run a 4.40 in this league to succeed.. In fact, if thats all u can do, u will not succeed in the NFL!
    [/quote]




    Yeah, I agree. People put too much on natural athleticism and potential from the combine. I'll take a guy who is polished technique-wise, has good intangibles, and has goodwork ethic over some athletic beast that is inconsistent or ****y. Just look at reggie bush, amazing athlete but not a football player. It does

    Comment


    • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft



      [quote user="nycsportzfan"]Loved what merril hodge had to say today on Mike and Mike.. He was talking about the Pats , and brought up how overrated the Combine and all the stuff we try and decipher to decide if these players are big enough and fast enough, and how they move up because they ran a tenth of a second faster then this guy, and how how guys move up RD's over a bench press...etc...etc He then goes on to say look at Danny Woodhead, Deion Branch, benjarvus green ellis, Wes Welker... He goes on to say, they may not be the biggest, strongst or fastest, but they know how to play football, and there reliable and thats why the pats are so good, they don't drop stupid pass's that any moe thats played a snap of football would catch.. They don't run out of bounds when the first down markers a foot away, they just know how to play football..

      How true is that? U see so many Freaks of nature, and see them drop the easiest of catches and make the stupidest of mistakes, and u think, man so what if the guys fast or whatever, hes dumb and not consistent, is all his mistakes and drops and whatever worth a big play, here and there?


      Look at how many teams passed over Ahmad Bradshaw(albeit some charechter concerns).. Probably becasue he wasen't the speediest of backs and not speedy and small, supposedly equals, no success in the nfl.. Well, guess what? The guys insane! He knows how to play football, and u don't have to run a 4.40 in this league to succeed.. In fact, if thats all u can do, u will not succeed in the NFL!
      [/quote]




      Yeah, I agree. People put too much on natural athleticism and potential from the combine. I'll take a guy who is polished technique-wise, has good intangibles, and has goodwork ethic over some athletic beast that is inconsistent or ****y. Just look at reggie bush, amazing athlete but not a football player.

      Comment


      • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

        [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Neverend"]


        Newton is a project IMO. Needs some development. He reminds me of michael vick/vince young. He has amazing arm strength but his accuracy isn't his strong point. His mechanics and footwork needs a lot of refinement. Too many times I've seen his receivers have to slow down or adjust to his passes and he's not really a pocket QB. Also (imo) a project's success is determined on the team that drafts him (a good organization with a respectable coaching staff) and that players' intangibles. He does have some red flags because of what his father did.




        Newton has tremendous athleticism, arm strength, and size but still pretty raw. He will not start in the NFL immediately. Definitely has amazing upside tho




        [/quote] Hes completing almost 70pct of his pass's... Thats pretty darn accurate..
        [/quote]Yeah for the things they ask him to do he is magnificent. My only thing is they dont ask him to do NFL types of reads and his receivers dont run NFL routes. Thats not his fault Im just saying[/quote] yes, u have made that point quite clear...lol It dosen't change the fact hes hitting his recievers on the move, with guys coming on him, ala the kentucky td pass that was amazing as a Defender litteraly was just about on him and he threw it while scrambling right on the money.. What QB can make that throw? seriously? And speaking of timing patterns, how about his TD pass in the Clemson game, where he freaking gunned it as hard as i seen a QB gun a pass for a 6yrd td pass to the just inside right hashmark, to the point the REF said the WR was out of bounds(a corner was litteraly on his back by the way) and replay clearly showed the feet in... It was just a shot gun get the ball and a second later gun it to where the WR is supposed to be... I mean, the guys made every play, maybe not as much as some would like, but theres evidence of every type of play and throw made from this kid.. The TD pass against KU and Ole Miss are flat out, ******edly sickening good, and i don't know if any player in this Country can make the same throws... I believe in, if your a Good PLayer, your gonna be good, as its just in your blood and your destiny to be good... Cam Newtons just a good player, who can make all the throws, can improvise, and has extremely awesome measurables and speed, and is 100times more accurate at his age then Mike Vick was at the same time, plus he has the advantage of seeing over most defenders, as mike vick can't do that... Dudes stupid accurate, and i've been writing about this kid since like the 2nd wk of the season and had money on just about every game hes played in, so i've seen just about every play from him, and wk by wk, i just kept wanting to see one more thing, to make me a total believer and every wk i was left satisfied and seeing that one more thing... I am 100pct completely satisfied and i would draft him in a Heart beat if i was a GM looking for a QB.. I'd take him over every QB except Luck...


        [/quote]




        Ive watched him just as much as U and Im well aware of what his accomplishments are. That doesnt change the fact the offense he is in has zero NFL reads and next to no NFL passing routes. He has met every challenge in CFB and its probable he will nail it in the NFL as well.Just to get this straight I like Cam alothe has through the roof upside and I love watching him play. I just know he is going to end up on the Redskins and Im going to have to hate him.

        [/quote] Fair enough... I also hope he don't end up on WASH or DALL... Anywhere else but there! I wonder if a team like Cincy would grab him up.. I know one things for sure, He will be a raider if hes on the board when they pick, and thats 100pct FACT!!!lol So many teams could use him, including the 9ers, the panthers, the dolphins, the texans(??), the vikings, the cards, the jags, the titans, the bills, the skins, the seahawks(whitehurst isn't answer)... Thats alot of teams, and thats off the top of the head...

        Comment


        • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

          [quote user="Neverend"]

          [quote user="nycsportzfan"]Loved what merril hodge had to say today on Mike and Mike.. He was talking about the Pats , and brought up how overrated the Combine and all the stuff we try and decipher to decide if these players are big enough and fast enough, and how they move up because they ran a tenth of a second faster then this guy, and how how guys move up RD's over a bench press...etc...etc He then goes on to say look at Danny Woodhead, Deion Branch, benjarvus green ellis, Wes Welker... He goes on to say, they may not be the biggest, strongst or fastest, but they know how to play football, and there reliable and thats why the pats are so good, they don't drop stupid pass's that any moe thats played a snap of football would catch.. They don't run out of bounds when the first down markers a foot away, they just know how to play football..

          How true is that? U see so many Freaks of nature, and see them drop the easiest of catches and make the stupidest of mistakes, and u think, man so what if the guys fast or whatever, hes dumb and not consistent, is all his mistakes and drops and whatever worth a big play, here and there?


          Look at how many teams passed over Ahmad Bradshaw(albeit some charechter concerns).. Probably becasue he wasen't the speediest of backs and not speedy and small, supposedly equals, no success in the nfl.. Well, guess what? The guys insane! He knows how to play football, and u don't have to run a 4.40 in this league to succeed.. In fact, if thats all u can do, u will not succeed in the NFL!
          [/quote]




          Yeah, I agree. People put too much on natural athleticism and potential from the combine. I'll take a guy who is polished technique-wise, has good intangibles, and has goodwork ethic over some athletic beast that is inconsistent or ****y. Just look at reggie bush, amazing athlete but not a football player. It

          [/quote] its ridiculous... I always put my 2-cents in based on the player, and only use combine stuff and what not, as 1small piece of the puzzle...

          Comment


          • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

            Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts.

            Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field.

            Polish and proper technique are overrated.

            Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal

            Comment


            • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

              [quote user="slipknottin"]Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts. Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field. Polish and proper technique are overrated. Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal[/quote]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though

              Comment


              • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

                [quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote]

                I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are.

                That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.

                Comment


                • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft



                  ah crap, sorry for the quad-post.




                  [quote user="slipknottin"]Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts. Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field. Polish and proper technique are overrated. Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal[/quote]




                  Eh, I think its more underrated but we all have our opinions I guess. I just personally prefer a guy who is a polished route runner over a speedy,tallathletic beast.But it also depends on the position too, I can live with a pass rusher who is quick, fast, and very strongbut lacking in the technique-area over a cornerbackwho is very fast but is lacking in the technique area becauseplaying corner is very tough. You'reright tho, teams do prefer it the other way.It still can go both ways, you can have a polished guy who never makes a game-changing play or any impactful plays, or you can have an athleticbeast who can't fulfill his potential or has character issues. Both have risks I guess

                  Comment


                  • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

                    Personally I would take the guy with the greater athleticism and teach him how to properly run routes.

                    Really it's not a huge issue, the other factors will be more of the key to a players success, how hard a guy works is probably #1, but something that is so rarely talked about.

                    Sintim for instance, tons of physical talent, but he doesn't apply himself. Goff is average physically, but he works hard. It's the biggest reason for a guys success and the biggest reason for a guys failure.

                    How many times has a guy been drafted in the first couple rounds and busted out because he wasent physically talented enough? Besides injuries, almost never.

                    Comment


                    • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft



                      Pulled this from eagles MB: http://boards.philadelphiaeagles.com...=590067&st=180




                      Look, Graham was supposed to be the high motor slam dunk guy. He wasn't the salivating athletic specimen that JPP and Dunlap were. They were supposed to be the raw upside projects who needed years to be refined. Graham expected to be the lower risk, polished, finished product.

                      Yet Graham is the one that is now reduced to the project/next year label while the two athletic freaks are making plays as rookies.

                      So if he "just needs a little time up the learning curve," then Graham is already losing value and falling behind guys who went after him, who were more athletic projects that are playing better NOW.

                      How many of you would honestly not trade Graham straight up for JPP RIGHT NOW. Be honest.




                      I may have to retract my statement about drafting polished players over athletic monsters. JPP is making me change my entire outlook on draft prospects

                      Comment


                      • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

                        [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="slipknottin"]Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts. Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field. Polish and proper technique are overrated. Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal[/quote]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] All i know, is the best team in football, has 7th rd draft pick Tom Brady throwing to undrafted Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead, and Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis toating the rock... Also, Deion branch isn't exactly a Physical Specimen...lol A very good player on that defense, Gary Guyton, also i believe undrafted, or at least late late rd... I believe that u first and fore most must be a productive college player, as u don't want those athletic players that "COULD" end up being stellar.. I think the combine is just one step, and when teams use it to much, is when trouble starts.. I love the way the Patriots draft, and the type of players they bring along, its really, the right way, in my opinion...

                        Comment


                        • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

                          [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="slipknottin"]Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts. Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field. Polish and proper technique are overrated. Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal[/quote]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] All i know, is the best team in football, has 7th rd draft pick Tom Brady throwing to undrafted Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead, and Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis toating the rock... Also, Deion branch isn't exactly a Physical Specimen...lol A very good player on that defense, Gary Guyton, also i believe undrafted, or at least late late rd... I believe that u first and fore most must be a productive college player, as u don't want those athletic players that "COULD" end up being stellar.. I think the combine is just one step, and when teams use it to much, is when trouble starts.. I love the way the Patriots draft, and the type of players they bring along, its really, the right way, in my opinion...
                          [/quote]Well not every team is as astute as Bill Belicheck and the NE Patriots. A lot of those playersU mentioned where not drafted or even signed as rookies by the Patriots.These same players were discarded by other teams. The Patriots more thenany other team take what a guy does well and maximizes it. Those same players when they wereother teams werent half the players they arenow.

                          Comment


                          • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

                            [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="slipknottin"]Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts. Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field. Polish and proper technique are overrated. Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal[/quote]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] All i know, is the best team in football, has 7th rd draft pick Tom Brady throwing to undrafted Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead, and Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis toating the rock... Also, Deion branch isn't exactly a Physical Specimen...lol A very good player on that defense, Gary Guyton, also i believe undrafted, or at least late late rd... I believe that u first and fore most must be a productive college player, as u don't want those athletic players that "COULD" end up being stellar.. I think the combine is just one step, and when teams use it to much, is when trouble starts.. I love the way the Patriots draft, and the type of players they bring along, its really, the right way, in my opinion...
                            [/quote]Well not every team is as astute as Bill Belicheck and the NE Patriots. A lot of those playersU mentioned where not drafted or even signed as rookies by the Patriots.These same players were discarded by other teams. The Patriots more thenany other team take what a guy does well and maximizes it. Those same players when they wereother teams werent half the players they arenow.[/quote] thats not really the point, the point is about the players, and outta 5players named, only 2 played for other teams besides New England... The fact is these players are ball players and no how to play the game the right way and all were very productive in college and weren't given the chance that others are given because they were short on some measurable or something, which happens all the time.. Theres a ton of players that don't ever get the chance because of measurables , that can put up impact numbers... I mean, look at guys like Steve Largent and Wayne Chrebet, there the lucky ones that were at leaste given a shot, and succeeded.. Also, u can't blame Deion branch for not doing well in Seattle, with that bum throwing to him up there, and wes welker showed signs before coming to new england, but needed a Real chance, and got one in New England... Theres a ton of players out there like this, how about Fred Jackson? To slow, not big college...etc...etc Well, hes a heck of a back! So far, all Fred Jackson has done, is easily out played 2first RD top RB's in spiller and Lynch... My point simply is, to many times, guys get overlooked because of measurables and 40times, and because of that, u See the easiest of INT"s or Catches dropped, that make your head spin, and horrible routes and ...etc...etc Now, i understand some live up to the hype, but man, some of these guys who are just smart and play the game the right way and know how to catch and simply put, play football, need to not be overlooked so much...

                            Comment


                            • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

                              [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote]

                              I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are.

                              That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...

                              Comment


                              • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

                                [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...
                                [/quote]I disagree those are monster numbers. There good but there hardly monster. Technique wise he was very very raw at South Florida.His had placement was poor and he hadnext to no pass rush moves.Hejust overwhelmed the opposition with physical strength,speed, and will.He still has his trouble playing the run and that will take some time. Kiwi getting hurt has definitely helped hima lot. It has allowed him to get some more snaps and move his progress forward . He is getting by mostly on physical ability, pure tenacity, and motor.Things that will definitely help U contribute as a pass rusher. Once he gets his technique down he will grow into an all around player. With all the extra playing time he has received this year it should really help him going into next season. Maybe Justin Tuck can give JPP sometime this off season on working on his run game technique

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