Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Realistic TOP5 Big Board for GIANTS now that we know round abouts where we'll pick?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by TheAnalyst View Post
    Top 5 scoring offenses in the NFL and their 1-3 round picks the last 5 years (WR or OL):

    Denver- 5 OL - 3 WRs
    Philly- 2 OL - 1 WR
    Dallas- 3 OL - 2 WRs
    Chicago- 2 OL - 2 WRs
    New England- 2 OL - 3 WRs

    And for a lot of these, the more impactful pick was the OL and not the WR. The Pats for example took 3 WRs, but none really had any impact. Chicago took Alson Jeffery, Dallas took Dez, Philly Took Maclin, Denver took D Thomas, but they all added more OLmen.

    Giants- 2 OL - 5 WRs , and we just took Pugh this past year. Beatty is the other. We took Nicks and Randle as our 2 big WR picks.

    Sometimes, you need to draft more OL to support your QB who gets the ball to your WRs. Having stud WRs dont buy Eli more time or help the OL.
    No one is arguing against the value and importance of a good OL but even those 5 teams you listed, the point of your argument doesn't actually add up to a solid context.

    Denver's best pass protector (Ryan Clady) was already lost earlier this season and they aren't missing a beat without him. Peyton has the best WR (plus a good receiving TE) unit in the league and it shows with the production those 4 guys are having. Thomas is finally staying healthy and is making a case for being one of the best WRs in the league.

    As for Philly, Lane Johnson is a high upside OT with insane athleticism but don't forget that one of their previous OL picks was a total flop in Danny Watkins. The best offensive lineman they have is actually a journeyman guard. Doesn't hurt that they have one of the best offensive minds in football and a dynamic RB in Shady.

    Dallas isn't actually a bad argument but one can't downplay the fact they have a future HoF TE, a productive QB who has always posted great stats, and one of the best vertical threats in the game in Dez. I really liked Tyron Smith coming out and he has been a huge part of their offense this year.

    Bears had one of the worst OLs in the league recently until the Kyle Long addition plus the signing of Jermon Bushrod to play LT. The original plan at LT, Gabe Carimi, was another OL flop from the 1st round. A huge part of their offensive revival has to go to the emergence of Alshon Jeffery playing like a #1 across a stud in Brandon Marshall and don't forget they also have one of the best run blocking TEs in Bennett.

    The Patriots are a unique case and while they have had great success with their OL development, one has to wonder how an offensive attack like theirs relied on the TEs. Without Hernandez and Gronk, there is a noticeable decline across the board for the entire offense and as a result, some of the OLs weaknesses might have been exposed. Still a good unit though.

    In today's NFL, you simply need 1 or 2 playmakers that can beat a double team to open up things for the other guys. Heading into 2014, I'd say that we have no one that is capable of doing that. Our best offensive player, Cruz, struggles with the doubles. You get a guy like Sammy Watkins and the amount of support he provides by having the ability to take the top off of a defense or break any short pass for ridiculous YAC trickles down to the rest of the receiving options and the running game too. No OT or interior OL can compete with that honestly.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
      No one is arguing against the value and importance of a good OL but even those 5 teams you listed, the point of your argument doesn't actually add up to a solid context.

      Denver's best pass protector (Ryan Clady) was already lost earlier this season and they aren't missing a beat without him. Peyton has the best WR (plus a good receiving TE) unit in the league and it shows with the production those 4 guys are having. Thomas is finally staying healthy and is making a case for being one of the best WRs in the league.

      As for Philly, Lane Johnson is a high upside OT with insane athleticism but don't forget that one of their previous OL picks was a total flop in Danny Watkins. The best offensive lineman they have is actually a journeyman guard. Doesn't hurt that they have one of the best offensive minds in football and a dynamic RB in Shady.

      Dallas isn't actually a bad argument but one can't downplay the fact they have a future HoF TE, a productive QB who has always posted great stats, and one of the best vertical threats in the game in Dez. I really liked Tyron Smith coming out and he has been a huge part of their offense this year.

      Bears had one of the worst OLs in the league recently until the Kyle Long addition plus the signing of Jermon Bushrod to play LT. The original plan at LT, Gabe Carimi, was another OL flop from the 1st round. A huge part of their offensive revival has to go to the emergence of Alshon Jeffery playing like a #1 across a stud in Brandon Marshall and don't forget they also have one of the best run blocking TEs in Bennett.

      The Patriots are a unique case and while they have had great success with their OL development, one has to wonder how an offensive attack like theirs relied on the TEs. Without Hernandez and Gronk, there is a noticeable decline across the board for the entire offense and as a result, some of the OLs weaknesses might have been exposed. Still a good unit though.

      In today's NFL, you simply need 1 or 2 playmakers that can beat a double team to open up things for the other guys. Heading into 2014, I'd say that we have no one that is capable of doing that. Our best offensive player, Cruz, struggles with the doubles. You get a guy like Sammy Watkins and the amount of support he provides by having the ability to take the top off of a defense or break any short pass for ridiculous YAC trickles down to the rest of the receiving options and the running game too. No OT or interior OL can compete with that honestly.
      I agree that you need playmakers, but we have to rely on our recent picks and signees to be those (David Wilson, Myers, Randle, Cruz, ect.). I would say our OL issue is much deeper then our exciting playmakers. Our OL is in shambles. It may be the worst in the league. We need to rebuild it before adding more playmakers IMO. The middle of our OL is weak and Beatty needs to come back to form, other wise Eli can have Watkins or Evens next year and they will look terrible stat wise and not help much.

      I used to hate, absolutely despise drafting OL early in drafts. But in the past 4-5 seasons, I realize how important it is to the entire offense. They are boring, but provide as much if not more impact then a WR or RB.
      Life is like a Giants game, you never know what you are going to get.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by TheAnalyst View Post
        Top 5 scoring offenses in the NFL and their 1-3 round picks the last 5 years (WR or OL):

        Denver- 5 OL - 3 WRs
        Philly- 2 OL - 1 WR
        Dallas- 3 OL - 2 WRs
        Chicago- 2 OL - 2 WRs
        New England- 2 OL - 3 WRs
        Where are you getting this? In the past 5 drafts, Denver drafted 3 linemen in in the first to third rounds with Beadles and Franklin the only ones starting. Clady was in 2008 along with Lichtensteiger who isn't even on the team [now in WAS]. Chris Clark, Ramirez and Vasquez were FA acquisitions.

        Dallas has had a poor offensive line for years while still fielding a prolific offense. Philly's 2 OL draft picks in the first three rounds include Watkins who was an abomination as a first rounder. The only two starters for the Bears that was drafted by them are Jordan Mills and Kyle Long, one of which was drafted in the first three roudns.
        Last edited by penguinfarmer; 12-26-2013, 06:16 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
          Mosley isn't on my board. At all
          Who cares?

          Comment


          • #35
            I changed mine.. If we pick at 9 I think Mack could be there, Big Board updated in sig..

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
              In today's NFL, you simply need 1 or 2 playmakers that can beat a double team to open up things for the other guys. Heading into 2014, I'd say that we have no one that is capable of doing that. Our best offensive player, Cruz, struggles with the doubles. You get a guy like Sammy Watkins and the amount of support he provides by having the ability to take the top off of a defense or break any short pass for ridiculous YAC trickles down to the rest of the receiving options and the running game too. No OT or interior OL can compete with that honestly.
              I couldn't agree more.

              When you look at each of those offenses, one of the common threads you touched upon was not only that their skill position players are more dynamic, but specifically at the tight end position. The rules of the NFL has dictated that one of the most difficult plays to defend is the pass up the seam. Tight ends that can stretch the field also create matchup problems in the run game, as teams might be tempted to play smaller than usual to slow the passing game. A good tight end is also beneficial to the O-line, as they offer an excellent check down option.

              The Giants are missing all of those things. Watching them this year was similar to watching San Diego struggle last year (when Philip Rivers had no checkdown options with Gates hurting and no receiving backs to speak of) or New England struggling at the beginning of this year (when Gronk and Shane Vereen were out and they struggled to move the ball consistently). It can't be that big of a coincidence that the year the Giants make a significant downgrade at the tight end position, their all-pro QB becomes mistake prone, the running game disappears, the talent on the outside doesn't look talented and the offense was feared by no one. The highest performing offenses in the league all rely heavily on the tight end as a pass catcher. The Giants seem to be stuck in an offense from a generation ago, focusing on traditional tight ends(though Brandon Myers doesn't do much of anything, and though he is more of a pass catcher than a run blocker, he is still a traditional tight end) that are more involved with runs than passes and certainly don't scare anyone.

              The Giants' biggest trouble on the offensive line is in the interior, as their tackles seem to be okay to good. Typically, good interior lineman can be found in the middle rounds. Tight ends and safeties have been creeping up draft boards in recent years because of the rule changes that encourage exploiting the seam. Taking a tight end in the first round could help solve a lot of problems the Giants have.

              Top 5:

              1) Eric Ebron, TE, UNC
              2) Austin Safarian-Jenkins, TE, Washington (He might be 1 depending on how he runs the 40)
              3) Cyrus Kouandjio, T, Alabama (Kick Beatty to guard or RT, with Pugh playing the other position)
              4) Taylor Lewan, T, Michigan (see above)
              5) Cyril Richardson, G, Baylor
              .
              .
              .
              Dead last) Any Alabama defender. It seems that Saban is very good at maximizing the potential of his players, so much so that none of his defensive prospects seem to amount to anything.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by GiantAmongPats View Post
                I couldn't agree more.

                When you look at each of those offenses, one of the common threads you touched upon was not only that their skill position players are more dynamic, but specifically at the tight end position. The rules of the NFL has dictated that one of the most difficult plays to defend is the pass up the seam. Tight ends that can stretch the field also create matchup problems in the run game, as teams might be tempted to play smaller than usual to slow the passing game. A good tight end is also beneficial to the O-line, as they offer an excellent check down option.

                The Giants are missing all of those things. Watching them this year was similar to watching San Diego struggle last year (when Philip Rivers had no checkdown options with Gates hurting and no receiving backs to speak of) or New England struggling at the beginning of this year (when Gronk and Shane Vereen were out and they struggled to move the ball consistently). It can't be that big of a coincidence that the year the Giants make a significant downgrade at the tight end position, their all-pro QB becomes mistake prone, the running game disappears, the talent on the outside doesn't look talented and the offense was feared by no one. The highest performing offenses in the league all rely heavily on the tight end as a pass catcher. The Giants seem to be stuck in an offense from a generation ago, focusing on traditional tight ends(though Brandon Myers doesn't do much of anything, and though he is more of a pass catcher than a run blocker, he is still a traditional tight end) that are more involved with runs than passes and certainly don't scare anyone.

                The Giants' biggest trouble on the offensive line is in the interior, as their tackles seem to be okay to good. Typically, good interior lineman can be found in the middle rounds. Tight ends and safeties have been creeping up draft boards in recent years because of the rule changes that encourage exploiting the seam. Taking a tight end in the first round could help solve a lot of problems the Giants have.

                Top 5:

                1) Eric Ebron, TE, UNC
                2) Austin Safarian-Jenkins, TE, Washington (He might be 1 depending on how he runs the 40)
                3) Cyrus Kouandjio, T, Alabama (Kick Beatty to guard or RT, with Pugh playing the other position)
                4) Taylor Lewan, T, Michigan (see above)
                5) Cyril Richardson, G, Baylor
                .
                .
                .
                Dead last) Any Alabama defender. It seems that Saban is very good at maximizing the potential of his players, so much so that none of his defensive prospects seem to amount to anything.
                FA: OG, T

                I think we should consider:
                Round 1 Jace Amaro , TE, Texas Tech or Eric Ebron, TE, UNC or WR Mike Evans Texas A&M
                Round 2 Jason Verrett TCU CB
                Round 3 Travis Swanson Arkansas 6'4" 305 OC
                Round 4 Andre Williams, RB, Boston College

                Comment


                • #38
                  I looked at about 8 mocks and on 7 of them Mike Evans was available when we picked. But not one of the mocks had us taking him. I saw DBs, DTs, OT but not one had us choosing Evans
                  Football has been very, very good to us.
                  After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                  But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                  # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                  1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                  2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                  3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                  4-New York Giants!!!
                  5-NE
                  Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                  ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    All this TE talk.. Not a fan in the 1st, much bigger needs

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by miked1958 View Post
                      I looked at about 8 mocks and on 7 of them Mike Evans was available when we picked. But not one of the mocks had us taking him. I saw DBs, DTs, OT but not one had us choosing Evans
                      I only see us grabbing a WR, DB, or DE. DT depends on if we resign Linval.

                      I would LOVE Evans though. We need another real playmaker to pair with Cruz. But eh, I'd be happy with Dennard or Gilbert too.
                      SuperMario82 on old GMB

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                        No one is arguing against the value and importance of a good OL but even those 5 teams you listed, the point of your argument doesn't actually add up to a solid context.

                        Denver's best pass protector (Ryan Clady) was already lost earlier this season and they aren't missing a beat without him. Peyton has the best WR (plus a good receiving TE) unit in the league and it shows with the production those 4 guys are having. Thomas is finally staying healthy and is making a case for being one of the best WRs in the league.

                        As for Philly, Lane Johnson is a high upside OT with insane athleticism but don't forget that one of their previous OL picks was a total flop in Danny Watkins. The best offensive lineman they have is actually a journeyman guard. Doesn't hurt that they have one of the best offensive minds in football and a dynamic RB in Shady.

                        Dallas isn't actually a bad argument but one can't downplay the fact they have a future HoF TE, a productive QB who has always posted great stats, and one of the best vertical threats in the game in Dez. I really liked Tyron Smith coming out and he has been a huge part of their offense this year.

                        Bears had one of the worst OLs in the league recently until the Kyle Long addition plus the signing of Jermon Bushrod to play LT. The original plan at LT, Gabe Carimi, was another OL flop from the 1st round. A huge part of their offensive revival has to go to the emergence of Alshon Jeffery playing like a #1 across a stud in Brandon Marshall and don't forget they also have one of the best run blocking TEs in Bennett.

                        The Patriots are a unique case and while they have had great success with their OL development, one has to wonder how an offensive attack like theirs relied on the TEs. Without Hernandez and Gronk, there is a noticeable decline across the board for the entire offense and as a result, some of the OLs weaknesses might have been exposed. Still a good unit though.

                        In today's NFL, you simply need 1 or 2 playmakers that can beat a double team to open up things for the other guys. Heading into 2014, I'd say that we have no one that is capable of doing that. Our best offensive player, Cruz, struggles with the doubles. You get a guy like Sammy Watkins and the amount of support he provides by having the ability to take the top off of a defense or break any short pass for ridiculous YAC trickles down to the rest of the receiving options and the running game too. No OT or interior OL can compete with that honestly.
                        This is a good post enigma. I agree with most of it. I also agree, no ones saying Oline isn't important, but you need a bunch of potent playmakers and a good QB to have any chance in this league..

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Carter.525 View Post
                          All this TE talk.. Not a fan in the 1st, much bigger needs
                          People aren't gonna under value these TE's much longer. They are making way to much of a impact in the NFL these days. Ur gonna see guys like Eric Ebrons and Jace Amaro's go in the 1st or 2nd every yr now.. Every team wants there own Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, Julius Thomas, and there not gonna be so willing to pass and watch other teams scoop these studs up in the 3rd-5th rd anymore..

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            1. Teddy Bridgewater
                            2. Jadevean Clowney
                            3. Jake Matthews
                            4. Johnny Manziel
                            5. Khalil Mack
                            6. Anthony Barr
                            7. Derek Carr

                            I see those guys being gone (in no order at all), so that leaves:

                            Cyrus Kouandjio
                            Greg Robinson
                            Cameron Erving
                            Sammy Watkins
                            Mike Evans
                            CJ Mosley
                            Darqueze Dennard

                            I personally LOVE Dennard. I think if we can pair him with Amukamara, it gives us a very strong foundation in the secondary. There will good OGs in the 2nd round and 3rd round (Su'a-Filo, Steen, Jackson).

                            I am not opposed to Watkins or Evans at all, but I am getting a great vibe from Donte Moncrief. How would any of you feel about him in the 2nd round or 3rd round?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              a player that I think is really going to rise is Kony Ealy of Missouri. Ive watched a lot of tape on him and while technically he leaves a little to be desired his physical ability translates very ,very well. He can play inside and out , play in space he is one of the more intruging players in this draft for me

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                                Dennard and Gilbert would make my Honarble Mention part of my list. I agree, i got Mack being gone.
                                Mack could be in play. How well he projects as a pass rusher is going to determine how high he goes

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X