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  • #31
    Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
    Also here is the thing with TE's and this team going forward.
    We value the Blocking TE because of 2 things
    1. that was the system Gilbride ran
    2. as of late the O-line needed the extra blocking help and the TE was there to augment any discrepancies

    As we progress, we have no Idea how the TE will be used, it could very well be as a primary blocker or as a receiver threat. As far as receiving threat goes based on tape amaro is more consistent and Ebron is more flashy. both are great options to have as they bring different dynamics, but here is the dilemma. We are drafting at 12, 2 outside of 10, they're definitely other prospects at that spot that have higher grades.
    i agree and i think who the Giants select in the draft at TE and where they're picked will determine a lot about this offense. if we get Ebron we can expect a TE involved offense, we draft Amaro we're switching to a TE in the slot type offense like the Pats, 49ers, Saints run with Gronk, Davis, Graham.

    the offense in general is a huge ??? right now and the draft will start to give us some answers, particularly how the TE will be involved

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
      Well, he lined up either in the slot or outside almost 80% of his snaps. So it is very fair to say he isnt a good blocking TE. They almost never asked him to end line block. He did show that he is slightly bigger and stronger than many thought, so that is encouraging as far as his ability to develop into a blocker, but he isnt a good 1 now.

      He really is special as a receiver tho.
      Nothing special about a TE who drops 11 1/2 percent of his catches.

      Comment


      • #33
        first, ebron makes way way too many body catches. i see he has the ability to high point it when doing drills, but gametime, like 90% of his catches he lets the ball get into his body (the other 10% he makes circus catches sometimes making the catch harder than necessary). Also, people are totally overrating his speed. I see him being compared to V.Davis, Davis ran a sub 4.4 40. Ebron ran a 4.6. Ebron does have something similar to Davis though, it isn't a positive. Like Davis, Ebron isn't agile laterally. He's fast in lines. Which, becomes a detriment when running routes in the NFL, ESPECIALLY for a TE. Davis gets by because he is such a legitimate vertical threat, Ebron won't be near the vertical threat.

        Now, don't get me wrong, Ebron IS a fine prospect/talent. Thing is, he's nowhere near the caliber player of a top 10 pick, he just isn't imho. Does that mean I think he'll suck in the NFL? No. I feel he can be like M.Bennett when he was with us and Chicago. And thats best case scenario because Ebrons blocking is nowhere near Bennett's level.

        I'd MUCH rather take Niklas or Fidowoenrlkf lol (Iowa St TE) in rds 2,3,4 or maybe even 5...the Texas Tech TE Austin-whatever it is doesn't look like he's going to be any type of threat in the pass game at the NFL level imho. at least not a downfield threat. guy looks a little unathletic/uncoordinated imo. good blocking TE tho.

        listen, the thing to remember is, Eli DOES make those around him better provided theres something there for him to better. Boss was a 5th or 6th round pick, Ballard was an UDFA rookie. We can get a TE in the draft and him be the starter, it just has to be the right guy. We lucked out with Ballard, JR has to nail whatever pick he puts to TE. If its Ebron at 12 just to be as safe a pick as possible, so be it, I wouldnt hate it. But id rather a different route. My dream scenario: Evans RD1, Niklas RD 2, Marcus Martin (iirc, the USC C) or the best rated interior OL RD 3 (or 4)

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
          first, ebron makes way way too many body catches. i see he has the ability to high point it when doing drills, but gametime, like 90% of his catches he lets the ball get into his body (the other 10% he makes circus catches sometimes making the catch harder than necessary). Also, people are totally overrating his speed. I see him being compared to V.Davis, Davis ran a sub 4.4 40. Ebron ran a 4.6. Ebron does have something similar to Davis though, it isn't a positive. Like Davis, Ebron isn't agile laterally. He's fast in lines. Which, becomes a detriment when running routes in the NFL, ESPECIALLY for a TE. Davis gets by because he is such a legitimate vertical threat, Ebron won't be near the vertical threat.

          Now, don't get me wrong, Ebron IS a fine prospect/talent. Thing is, he's nowhere near the caliber player of a top 10 pick, he just isn't imho. Does that mean I think he'll suck in the NFL? No. I feel he can be like M.Bennett when he was with us and Chicago. And thats best case scenario because Ebrons blocking is nowhere near Bennett's level.

          I'd MUCH rather take Niklas or Fidowoenrlkf lol (Iowa St TE) in rds 2,3,4 or maybe even 5...the Texas Tech TE Austin-whatever it is doesn't look like he's going to be any type of threat in the pass game at the NFL level imho. at least not a downfield threat. guy looks a little unathletic/uncoordinated imo. good blocking TE tho.

          listen, the thing to remember is, Eli DOES make those around him better provided theres something there for him to better. Boss was a 5th or 6th round pick, Ballard was an UDFA rookie. We can get a TE in the draft and him be the starter, it just has to be the right guy. We lucked out with Ballard, JR has to nail whatever pick he puts to TE. If its Ebron at 12 just to be as safe a pick as possible, so be it, I wouldnt hate it. But id rather a different route. My dream scenario: Evans RD1, Niklas RD 2, Marcus Martin (iirc, the USC C) or the best rated interior OL RD 3 (or 4)
          Firstly let me say that Eli DID make those around him better. However, that was then, this is NOW. He clearly needs superiorly talented players around him in order for him too succeed. After all, we saw what happened last year, right?

          Again, your assessment of Ebron is again, incorrect. Laterally, he is MUCH more effective than Davis and has much more potential as a receiver.

          Here is Greg Cossell assessment: (FYI, he is among the most respected talent evaluators in football who watches hours and hours of tape)

          ""And he's probably, see Vernon Davis is much more of a straight-line speed guy," Cosell added. "This guy (Ebron) is more lateral in his movement. You could argue overall that he brings a little more to the table, as a more complete receiver." Cosell did acknowledge Ebron's college tape at times "leaves you wanting more," but described Ebron as a "smooth, athletic mover who looks like a big wide receiver on film" and is "certainly capable of the spectacular."

          Source: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9390/eric-ebron

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by wideright91 View Post
            Amaro won't succeed at the NFL level, mark my words.

            .
            And you are.. A scout? Analyst? You obviously haven't a clue about football
            2017 Draft Wishlist:
            1. Christian McCaffrey RB Stanford
            2. Raekwon McMillan ILB Ohio State
            3. Roderick Johnson OT Florida State
            4. Jordan Leggett TE Clemson
            5. Ryan Glasgow DT Michegan
            6. Chad Kelly QB Ole Miss
            7. Billy Brown WR Shepherd

            sigpic
            "Behold, the tailgate party. The pinnacle of human achievement. Since the dawn of parking lots, man has sought to fill his gut with food and alcohol in anticipation of watching others exercise."
            - Homer J. Simpson

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
              You are kinda sugar coating his inability to block.

              Ebron is a 1st round prospect as a speed/ open space player...basically a WR in sheeps clothing. He is a stud in that capacity. UNC used him as a slot guy mostly and much of the blocking you see in film is him vs a DB or small LB(not many of these in the NFL)


              Ebron is a great prospect, but he doesn't have the size/strength to take on end line blockers in the NFL and I do not think that any team that will ask him to do that would consider him a 1st round prospect. It will be a team that wants to use split out or in the slot that will draft him
              Watch the Miami tape on draftbreakdown.com he blocks a DE a lot of the game 1 on 1 and wins more than he loses. He is in the traditional TE spot quite a bit more in that game. That is the tape I got the best feel for his blocking in a traditional TE spot.

              Not a bad game either... 199 yards and 1td lol
              sigpic
              S/O to Flip Empty for the sig
              __________________________________________________ ______
              Mock Draft
              1st) O.J Howard TE Bama 2nd) D. Walker DE F.S.U 3rd) S. Perine RB Oklahoma
              4th) E. Magnuson OT/OG Mich 5th) J. Replogle DT Purde
              6th) Fred Ross WR Miss St 7th) J. Reeves-Maybin LB Tenn
              __________________________________________________ ______
              Strick's 2015 All-Sleeper Team - http://boards.giants.com/showthread....t=sleeper+team

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by CGYgiant View Post
                Firstly let me say that Eli DID make those around him better. However, that was then, this is NOW. He clearly needs superiorly talented players around him in order for him too succeed. After all, we saw what happened last year, right?

                Again, your assessment of Ebron is again, incorrect. Laterally, he is MUCH more effective than Davis and has much more potential as a receiver.

                Here is Greg Cossell assessment: (FYI, he is among the most respected talent evaluators in football who watches hours and hours of tape)

                ""And he's probably, see Vernon Davis is much more of a straight-line speed guy," Cosell added. "This guy (Ebron) is more lateral in his movement. You could argue overall that he brings a little more to the table, as a more complete receiver." Cosell did acknowledge Ebron's college tape at times "leaves you wanting more," but described Ebron as a "smooth, athletic mover who looks like a big wide receiver on film" and is "certainly capable of the spectacular."

                Source: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9390/eric-ebron
                only thing i disagree with here is Eli "clearly needs superiorly talented players around him in order for him too succeed." i dont think last year proved that at all. i think if anything last year proved that clearly Eli needs an offensive line that can protect him and set up lanes for the running plays more than anything. I really dont believe Eli's talent faded or declined in anyway. sure his play declined, but i think that was more of having absolutely no time to throw and absolutely no running game. Eli was sacked 39 times last year and was under pressure for nearly 50% of his drop backs. its ridiculous how little time Eli had back there. get Eli some protection and a servicable running game and he could make his players better.

                with that said though, i feel we still need a TE and a WR at some point in the first 4 rounds of this draft just because we are so thin at the positions

                Comment


                • #38
                  I feel like Ebron is getting a pass on his blocking and drops in that analysis. The thing is, he isnt good at blocking when he can only do it well 50% of the time. Sure, that may be coachable, but the drops aren't. That is something that stays with someone. I never saw a college player who was impactde by drops change completely in the NFL. The drops will still be there, but so will the spectacular catches.
                  WE ALREADY HAVE A GREAT RUNNING BACK:

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TheAnalyst View Post
                    I feel like Ebron is getting a pass on his blocking and drops in that analysis. The thing is, he isnt good at blocking when he can only do it well 50% of the time. Sure, that may be coachable, but the drops aren't. That is something that stays with someone. I never saw a college player who was impactde by drops change completely in the NFL. The drops will still be there, but so will the spectacular catches.
                    You didint watch the UNC games did you, theres absolutely no way you did. The majority of Ebron's drops were terrible throws and pretty much uncatchable. But you will read stats and pass your own judgement without watching the guy like others around here. I saw almost every UNC game. Their starting QB went out early in the year and the sophomore backup ran a lot, threw behind and below Ebron, and even with what he was given, Ebron made some amazing catches and did what he does best, make a lot out of nothing. Its tiring having to fill people in with facts, so many haters. Ebron is one of the best bets at 12 right now, especially since we got our blocking TE in the Davis pickup.
                    2017 Draft Wishlist:
                    1. Christian McCaffrey RB Stanford
                    2. Raekwon McMillan ILB Ohio State
                    3. Roderick Johnson OT Florida State
                    4. Jordan Leggett TE Clemson
                    5. Ryan Glasgow DT Michegan
                    6. Chad Kelly QB Ole Miss
                    7. Billy Brown WR Shepherd

                    sigpic
                    "Behold, the tailgate party. The pinnacle of human achievement. Since the dawn of parking lots, man has sought to fill his gut with food and alcohol in anticipation of watching others exercise."
                    - Homer J. Simpson

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TAILGATIN' View Post
                      You didint watch the UNC games did you, theres absolutely no way you did. The majority of Ebron's drops were terrible throws and pretty much uncatchable. But you will read stats and pass your own judgement without watching the guy like others around here. I saw almost every UNC game. Their starting QB went out early in the year and the sophomore backup ran a lot, threw behind and below Ebron, and even with what he was given, Ebron made some amazing catches and did what he does best, make a lot out of nothing. Its tiring having to fill people in with facts, so many haters. Ebron is one of the best bets at 12 right now, especially since we got our blocking TE in the Davis pickup.
                      You know whats annoying, being labeled a hater for tlaking about someone in a negative way. I dont hate. I express how I feel. Now I am sure you have seen much more than I have from him in game situations, but I hjave seen highlights and lowlights and just formed an opinion off that. I saw some bad thrown balls, but I saw some big drops as well. I dont think any RB or TE is worth the #12 pick. We won 2 superbowls with Boss, Ballard and Pascoe. I wouldnt trade our #12 pick for Jimmy Graham, Gronk or Vernan Davis. How many rings have they won by the way?
                      WE ALREADY HAVE A GREAT RUNNING BACK:

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by hugehomer View Post
                        Nothing special about a TE who drops 11 1/2 percent of his catches.
                        I do agree the drops are a problem. They seem to be a concentration issue as he has no problem making circus catches. My referring to him as special comes more from his ability to run routes, shake defenders, and lastly his ability to make yards after the catch, which is better than most WRs.


                        I still have reservation about taking him 12th. His drops and lack of experience blocking inline drop his value for me.
                        sigpic

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                        • #42
                          Niklas in the 2nd.. Fiedorowicz in the 3rd... I'd be happy with either

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Carter.525 View Post
                            Niklas in the 2nd.. Fiedorowicz in the 3rd... I'd be happy with either
                            I second that! I think both are very good blockers and can provide enough in the pass game.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by TheAnalyst View Post
                              You know whats annoying, being labeled a hater for tlaking about someone in a negative way. I dont hate. I express how I feel. Now I am sure you have seen much more than I have from him in game situations, but I hjave seen highlights and lowlights and just formed an opinion off that. I saw some bad thrown balls, but I saw some big drops as well. I dont think any RB or TE is worth the #12 pick. We won 2 superbowls with Boss, Ballard and Pascoe. I wouldnt trade our #12 pick for Jimmy Graham, Gronk or Vernan Davis. How many rings have they won by the way?
                              Don't take the word hater too serious. Not trading our 12 for a proven top nfl talent is absolutely absurd. Nothing surprises me around here. Teams win championships not players, guys like Davis, Graham, and Gronk are part of the reason their teams are consistently contenders.
                              2017 Draft Wishlist:
                              1. Christian McCaffrey RB Stanford
                              2. Raekwon McMillan ILB Ohio State
                              3. Roderick Johnson OT Florida State
                              4. Jordan Leggett TE Clemson
                              5. Ryan Glasgow DT Michegan
                              6. Chad Kelly QB Ole Miss
                              7. Billy Brown WR Shepherd

                              sigpic
                              "Behold, the tailgate party. The pinnacle of human achievement. Since the dawn of parking lots, man has sought to fill his gut with food and alcohol in anticipation of watching others exercise."
                              - Homer J. Simpson

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TAILGATIN' View Post
                                Don't take the word hater too serious. Not trading our 12 for a proven top nfl talent is absolutely absurd. Nothing surprises me around here. Teams win championships not players, guys like Davis, Graham, and Gronk are part of the reason their teams are consistently contenders.
                                I agree they help, but the very fact we can win without them to me de values them and makes them not worth the #12 pick unless we are a great TE away from being a monster, which we are not. And if you think Gronk, Graham and Davis are the reasons those teams are contenders, check out what they were doing before those guys came in. Pats were winning Superbowls, BRADY and BELICHECK are the reasons. Saints won it all before Graham. BREES and PEYTON are the reason. Davis was nearly kicked off the team before a great coach came along.
                                WE ALREADY HAVE A GREAT RUNNING BACK:

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