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Get skill position player @ 12th pick, why?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by miked1958 View Post
    if we ever got Evans in first I think I would **** myself!!
    Agree

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
      I am not sure there is a Guard prospect I like at the 12th, but I dislike it when people assume guards aren't worth high picks even more.

      The fact is in today's NFL guards are just as important as tackles mostly because the guys being used at DT are much better athletes than used to be the case.

      People like to make the argument "we got Snee in the 2nd." and that is true but I think it is an irrelevant. By that argument, nobody should ever spend higher than a 6th on a QB because you can get Tom Brady there. The more relevant question is "looking back, what WOULD you have spent on a Chris Snee." The answer is CLEARLY a 1st rounder. If the Giants thought they could get a Chris Snee at the 12 overall pick, they would select the guy and never look back.
      I've always had two arguments against not taking highly valued positions early. (I define value by how much teams pay the position).

      1. I've always maintained that the difference in impact of a "great" guard and a good guard is much smaller than that of positions like qb pass rusher cb wr etc.(think of it in terms of the baseball statistic WAR) Therefore, as long as you have a good or decent player then you should be fine.

      2. You only have so many early round draft picks. Fiscally speaking, you want good players on cheap deals at the more expensive positions (cb wr pass rusher). Drafting these positions early gives you the best chance of achieving this. Generally speaking, whenever your turn comes up to pick, there's going to be a player at one of the premium positions that is graded high enough to give you more bang for buck than a lesser value position. That then affords you the ability to spend your remaining cap on high end FAs at the lesser costing positions and still likely have very good players at the high value positions.

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      • #18
        nice points ingrate.

        it just goes to show how much more detail is involved in making the selection than we generally assume. there's a lot to factor into it.

        i personally agree that GM's align themselves with what you're getting at; the premium positions are of more value in earlier rounds especially now with the rookie payscales...it just doesnt really, imo, add up to take a G at 12 (unless ur talking all time great) or unless you're talking about a team that is locked and loaded, and only has a hole or 2 at positions of lesser value.

        neither is the situation we face, so, id rather go skill position.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by TheAnalyst View Post
          The problem is when we pick in the 2nd the top Gs and Cs most likely won't be there.

          Offensive line is the reason the Giants watched the playoffs this year. It is the biggest need. They were old and falling apart. A young stud OL helps tremendously. Pugh is on his way. He needs more help.
          You're right I never thought about that. We have the 12th pick in the second round. I like Evans, but O-line needs to be addressed, and not with a project but some elite talent.

          I think our best move is to trade down and pick up a top 5 2nd round pick to ensure we get one of the best C, G prospects. If we do trade down I'm thinking we double down on the O-line in the 1st and 2nd round.
          Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

          http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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          • #20
            Originally posted by miked1958 View Post
            Knowing the giants though he could be there at 12 and were all blowing up the boards after 11 goes and he doesn't get picked. Then our time on the clock ends.. The Pick is in. We all wait to explode. And they draft someone we never heard of.. And we all got ""What?"" ""who??"""

            How many times has this happened! To many to count
            Hahaha! That's happened plenty of times.

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            • #21
              Let's hope we fix the o-line during FA and when the draft comes around hopefully we won't need to fill more then one spot.along the line. I'm hoping for Gilbert/Dennard. I want to build our D bc that's what wins championships. Prince with either of them on the other side and a healty JPP is a really good start!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TheAnalyst View Post
                The problem is when we pick in the 2nd the top Gs and Cs most likely won't be there.

                Offensive line is the reason the Giants watched the playoffs this year. It is the biggest need. They were old and falling apart. A young stud OL helps tremendously. Pugh is on his way. He needs more help.
                I agree !!!!! +1
                1927, 1934, 1938, 1956, 1986, 1990, 2007, 2011

                Osi Umenyiora : " There's Nothing Like Being a NY GIANT ! "

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                • #23
                  so many ppl want a offensive guy here..i want a pass rusher..the giants have to get better at getting off the field on 3rd down. Evans at 6'5 is a huge target for Eli's high passes..whats his vertical haha. still hoping they draft kony ealy.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
                    I've always had two arguments against not taking highly valued positions early. (I define value by how much teams pay the position).

                    1. I've always maintained that the difference in impact of a "great" guard and a good guard is much smaller than that of positions like qb pass rusher cb wr etc.(think of it in terms of the baseball statistic WAR) Therefore, as long as you have a good or decent player then you should be fine.

                    2. You only have so many early round draft picks. Fiscally speaking, you want good players on cheap deals at the more expensive positions (cb wr pass rusher). Drafting these positions early gives you the best chance of achieving this. Generally speaking, whenever your turn comes up to pick, there's going to be a player at one of the premium positions that is graded high enough to give you more bang for buck than a lesser value position. That then affords you the ability to spend your remaining cap on high end FAs at the lesser costing positions and still likely have very good players at the high value positions.
                    Good Post !
                    1927, 1934, 1938, 1956, 1986, 1990, 2007, 2011

                    Osi Umenyiora : " There's Nothing Like Being a NY GIANT ! "

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ThatNiCcA56 View Post
                      Hahaha! That's happened plenty of times.
                      To many to count. Then you see the guy they passed over we all thought they should take excel and the one we grabbed never amounts to anything. I can't remember examples but we passed on some Pretty good players. Sometimes we had a need at that position and passed which always peeves you. But other times there are guys there that look to be sure things and. We used to be known to draft BPA no matter if you need a player at that position or not. I guess we only draft BPA on based off what our needs our cause we passed right over Eddie Lacy and look what he's doing for GB.. Just one example
                      Football has been very, very good to us.
                      After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                      But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                      # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                      1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                      2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                      3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                      4-New York Giants!!!
                      5-NE
                      Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                      ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

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                      • #26
                        Defense wins championships..

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
                          I've always had two arguments against not taking highly valued positions early. (I define value by how much teams pay the position).

                          1. I've always maintained that the difference in impact of a "great" guard and a good guard is much smaller than that of positions like qb pass rusher cb wr etc.(think of it in terms of the baseball statistic WAR) Therefore, as long as you have a good or decent player then you should be fine.

                          2. You only have so many early round draft picks. Fiscally speaking, you want good players on cheap deals at the more expensive positions (cb wr pass rusher). Drafting these positions early gives you the best chance of achieving this. Generally speaking, whenever your turn comes up to pick, there's going to be a player at one of the premium positions that is graded high enough to give you more bang for buck than a lesser value position. That then affords you the ability to spend your remaining cap on high end FAs at the lesser costing positions and still likely have very good players at the high value positions.
                          I mostly agree but th problem lately is that Quality College Olineman are getting scarcer and scarcer and reaching for them seems to be the only way to secure them

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                            I mostly agree but th problem lately is that Quality College Olineman are getting scarcer and scarcer and reaching for them seems to be the only way to secure them
                            Free agency.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
                              Free agency.
                              Yes but then u pay 6 million a year for David Baas who started 1 season or 8 million a year for a 25 year old Jon Asamoh

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                                I mostly agree but th problem lately is that Quality College Olineman are getting scarcer and scarcer and reaching for them seems to be the only way to secure them
                                I wonder if the real issue could be that the defensive linemen (and pass-rushing LBs) coming out of college these days are just more athletic and explosive on average than they were 10-15+ years ago. It probably doesn't help that only one of the 5 OL positions gets any glamour and serious money in terms of a second contract as well. There really isn't much incentive for me to play interior OL or RT if I'm an athletic guy when I can probably make more money at a premier position.

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