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Get skill position player @ 12th pick, why?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
    I wonder if the real issue could be that the defensive linemen (and pass-rushing LBs) coming out of college these days are just more athletic and explosive on average than they were 10-15+ years ago. It probably doesn't help that only one of the 5 OL positions gets any glamour and serious money in terms of a second contract as well. There really isn't much incentive for me to play interior OL or RT if I'm an athletic guy when I can probably make more money at a premier position.
    I think a lot of it is the spread offenses

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    • #32
      Originally posted by TheAnalyst View Post
      The problem is when we pick in the 2nd the top Gs and Cs most likely won't be there.

      Offensive line is the reason the Giants watched the playoffs this year. It is the biggest need. They were old and falling apart. A young stud OL helps tremendously. Pugh is on his way. He needs more help.
      There will be a top level offensive lineman in the 2nd round, it's just a matter of identifying him. Recent players not going in the 1st round include:

      Mitchell Scwartz, 37th
      Cordy Glenn, 41st
      Kelechi Osemele, 60th
      Zane Beadles, 45th
      Jared Veldheer, 65th

      I liked the Pugh pick last year, but at 12 I'd rather us try and find a playmaker. That said, if you draft a guard at 12 and he's a 5x Pro Bowler, it's hard to really criticize the pick.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
        Yes but then u pay 6 million a year for David Baas who started 1 season or 8 million a year for a 25 year old Jon Asamoh
        Have to invest your money somewhere. There's the Geoff schwartz's and Shawn Andrews and Sean locklear's of the world, too. Then there's Kareem Mackenzie, Ben Grubbs, Vasquez, etc. You can sign a pretty good line.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
          Have to invest your money somewhere. There's the Geoff schwartz's and Shawn Andrews and Sean locklear's of the world, too. Then there's Kareem Mackenzie, Ben Grubbs, Vasquez, etc. You can sign a pretty good line.
          You should try to get a 1 year vet like Andrews and Locklear for depth purposes every year, However those guys arent long term solutions but as a 6th lineman or swing tackle they fill in nicely , you just get pencil that guy in as your starter week 1. Mckenzie wasnt exactly cheap he was 1 of the highest paid RT's in the NFL., same thing with grubbs your talking about paying guys in the top 5 at their position . the 12 pick got 5 years 10.28 million last year if you get Mike Iupati what is im assuming your getting if you draft a Guard high thats significantly less money allocated. Its not like pre rookie cap when the Guard would be getting paid 5 million a year and then yes no reason to take low value positions high

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
            You should try to get a 1 year vet like Andrews and Locklear for depth purposes every year, However those guys arent long term solutions but as a 6th lineman or swing tackle they fill in nicely , you just get pencil that guy in as your starter week 1. Mckenzie wasnt exactly cheap he was 1 of the highest paid RT's in the NFL., same thing with grubbs your talking about paying guys in the top 5 at their position . the 12 pick got 5 years 10.28 million last year if you get Mike Iupati what is im assuming your getting if you draft a Guard high thats significantly less money allocated. Its not like pre rookie cap when the Guard would be getting paid 5 million a year and then yes no reason to take low value positions high
            Rookie scale supports my case. A top guard is 7.5 mill a year. A top wr cb pass rusher is 13 mill a year. You can invest 25-30 mill a year into OL if you aren't spending on wr cb and pass rusher

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
              Rookie scale supports my case. A top guard is 7.5 mill a year. A top wr cb pass rusher is 13 mill a year. You can invest 25-30 mill a year into OL if you aren't spending on wr cb and pass rusher
              I think the rookie scale has opened the draft to draft more positions before u wouldnt take a Guard top 10 because he would be the highest paid player in the NFL. Now if u take a Guard in the top 10 he is paid like a regular starter. I do know what your saying getting a top position locked up cheaper goes a long way but I'm not reaching to fulfill that with the rookie wage scale in place. Before the scale yes I would reach.

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              • #37
                Reese likes 5star prospects and I think his first pick will come from either Ebron,Evans,Mack or Barr. Whichever one falls to us. If one from Matthews or Robinson were to fall to us he would pick there. I guess Lewan would be his last choice if all the others are gone. We shoul get an impact lplayer although some would take more time to blossom then others.

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                • #38
                  Lee, Mack, Barr, Dennard, Gilbert (and possibly Ealy) in the 1st round.
                  Cyril Richardson, Morgan Moses, Gabe Jackson, etc should be there in the 2nd round.

                  We need to get an impact player in the 1st round (and of course this is all speculation considering we have 25 FAs and CAP to spend).

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                  • #39
                    If Mattews and Robinson are gone , I would seriously consider Evans. I have to hedge a little because I don't know what background character info they have
                    on Evans and other prospects they may like.

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                    • #40
                      I like Evans but at the same time I don't know he's a little too slow for my taste. He does have the height though. That said the receivers are irrelevant if the line is leaking. And that is our problem. We cannot run the ball and we can't protect Eli. I know we signed Beattie to an extension last year but he played pretty mediocre AND he broke his leg on top of that. That's pretty grave for a tackle who protects the blindside. And I don't know if Beattie is going to be 100% when he comes back. And I agree with mentioned above. You can find guards in the 2nd and 3rd that can come right in and start. But you can't find centers and we need one badly. That is why I would throw all the money in the world on Alex Mack of the guy from GB. Specially with a new offense, we can't have a bad vet or a young guy just learning, we need someone that can pick this up fast. At the same time I will speak no more, our pick should be Taylor Lewan. The guy can play both tackle spots, is strong as hell, is NASTY as all can be and can play left tackle as a natural position. Virtually a clone of Jake Long. If Beattie is healthy you can move him to the right spot and kick Pugh inside. We still need a starting center and a guard. And I don't want to see someone like Boothe anywhere except the bench. He is still serviceable but he gets overpowered all the time. And if Snee comes back he can win his job back or sit on the bench. The truth is these days your line needs to be at least 6 or 7 deep and unfortunately all of our young offensive linemen on the bench suck. Every single one of them. It is the most important position of the offense behind the QB and even more so I believe. And we have severe holes in it. We won't beat any team with a decent defense let alone Seattle or San Francisco unless we make that position a strength again. We won superbowls with strong offensive lines. Even when key guys went down on both runs. Because we had incredible depth. Right now we have no depth and we don't even have solid starters on the interior of the line. And that means everything. As much as I do believe you need a true number one receiver. I wish I had Sammy Watkins or even Evans if we had a second first rounder, but the line is more important.

                      We also have holes on defense. In the back seven, specially at cornerback, hell even the front. I'm no so sure about our DL anymore. The Giants have a lot of work to do.

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                      • #41
                        At this point, whoever they get better be a Week 1 player. They better be suited up and ready for major snaps on whatever side of the ball. If it is a G/C/T, they better be starting. If it is a DL, they better be in the rotation for at least 30 snaps a game. If it is a skilled player, they better be #1 on the depth chart. No more project picks before round 4. Enough already. No more healthy scratches. If they are suited up, they need to be ready to play. Don't waste a roster spot on a veteran for a year or two waiting for your first pick to develop.
                        “Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”
                        ― George Carlin

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ANON837 View Post
                          At this point, whoever they get better be a Week 1 player. They better be suited up and ready for major snaps on whatever side of the ball. If it is a G/C/T, they better be starting. If it is a DL, they better be in the rotation for at least 30 snaps a game. If it is a skilled player, they better be #1 on the depth chart. No more project picks before round 4. Enough already. No more healthy scratches. If they are suited up, they need to be ready to play. Don't waste a roster spot on a veteran for a year or two waiting for your first pick to develop.
                          You only have their rights for 4 years they have to play

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                          • #43
                            Who wouldn't want Watkins or Evans on their team?? But if Lewan or Martin is there on the board when we pick, I think we have to go there. Our OLine needs help in the worst way. Martin can play tackle or guard, and Lewan can play either tackle position. Beatty can play right or left tackle (and should play where he's best suited to help us, and not just at LT because of his contract). Pugh can play anywhere on the line.

                            So we have flexibility in our pick, but if the quality is there at the OL, I don't see us going anywhere else.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by RagTime Blue View Post
                              Who wouldn't want Watkins or Evans on their team?? But if Lewan or Martin is there on the board when we pick, I think we have to go there. Our OLine needs help in the worst way. Martin can play tackle or guard, and Lewan can play either tackle position. Beatty can play right or left tackle (and should play where he's best suited to help us, and not just at LT because of his contract). Pugh can play anywhere on the line.

                              So we have flexibility in our pick, but if the quality is there at the OL, I don't see us going anywhere else.
                              I think this will be the case.. Lewan or Martin

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                              • #45
                                I really want Lewan. He's go the nasty streak we are missing on offense. You need that type of player when playing against thugs like the Niners and Seahawks.

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