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What makes Donald better than Bromley

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  • #31
    Originally posted by penguinfarmer View Post
    I think it's possible they had Beckham higher. There are more successful WRs with his height than there are NFL DTs with Donald's. They may have been turned off by that. Sounds like they had several players after Beckham, but before Donald.
    there was a lot more talent in this draft for WR than their was for DT, Donald was worlds apart, where Beckham was the 3rd best receiver.

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    @Katdaddyjay 17h
    @RuebenRandle @OBJ_3 @Giants
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    • #32
      Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
      there was a lot more talent in this draft for WR than their was for DT, Donald was worlds apart, where Beckham was the 3rd best receiver.
      At 12, I don't think their peer prospects matter. You can't script your draft starting with your top 15 pick. You take the best player on your board. And position rankings can be irrelevant. Sometimes the third rated player at position A can still be more of an impact than the first rated player at position B simply due to the nature of the position.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by penguinfarmer View Post
        At 12, I don't think their peer prospects matter. You can't script your draft starting with your top 15 pick. You take the best player on your board. And position rankings can be irrelevant. Sometimes the third rated player at position A can still be more of an impact than the first rated player at position B simply due to the nature of the position.
        There is no exact science to this as we are both assuming, Donald was the #1 DT / Beckham was the #3 rated WR this much we know by the information provided to us. This is the deepest at WR a draft has ever been in a long time, we just lost out premier DT to the vikings, Donald based on the infer we have available to us was the BPA/need combo at 12, there might be something to him that the giants know about that made them look elsewhere, but it could not possibly have been due to the fact that they thought the answer was in-house, because they drafted Bromley and brought in 2-3 DT's in UDFA. I wonder what scared them away from Donald.

        Retweeted by Rueben Randle
        @Katdaddyjay 17h
        @RuebenRandle @OBJ_3 @Giants
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        • #34
          Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
          There is no exact science to this as we are both assuming, Donald was the #1 DT / Beckham was the #3 rated WR this much we know by the information provided to us. This is the deepest at WR a draft has ever been in a long time, we just lost out premier DT to the vikings, Donald based on the infer we have available to us was the BPA/need combo at 12, there might be something to him that the giants know about that made them look elsewhere, but it could not possibly have been due to the fact that they thought the answer was in-house, because they drafted Bromley and brought in 2-3 DT's in UDFA. I wonder what scared them away from Donald.
          Or, maybe they thought Beckham was a better prospect than Donald? I mean that can't be too difficult to believe.Also, the media had Beckham as the third best WR but many scouts including Greg Cossell from NFL films had Beckham as the second best receiver in this draft.

          They were both great prospects but the Giants went with the guy who they had higher on their board and someone who adds a dynamic ability to this offence.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
            there was a lot more talent in this draft for WR than their was for DT, Donald was worlds apart, where Beckham was the 3rd best receiver.
            Big gap between the 3rd and 4th WR's too though . . . .

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            • #36
              Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
              Donald was the #1 DT / Beckham was the #3 rated WR this much we know by the information provided to us.
              We don't know how the Giants rated Donald. All we know is that they wanted Beckham more than Donald. We also only know that 1 team for sure had Donald as the #1 DT, not that position rankings mean anything. Should we have taken Richburg at #12 instead of ODB? I mean clearly Richburg was the #1 Center in the draft.
              LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
              "Next man up"

              "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

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              • #37
                I disagree with the notion that the Giants had ODB at #3 WR. Hopefully, they learned from the recent past in this area and had the scouting department hold a wide receivers ability to go out and grab a football as it's primary skill it's looking for.

                We had already drafted I believe once before that way with Nicks. Wasn't the fastest, or the smartest, but had wonderful hands and could catch anything.He gave us some great plays while healthy and motivated. Where we failed in that draft was Reese grabbed Barden too. The problem with Barden was he only flashed that skill - he was more just tall. It wasn't a shock to me that he's washed out over the years.

                The surprise to the organization was Cruz. Undersized, but he could just plain ball hawk - we all saw that in that Jets game - and run. And he was an UDFA.

                Lessons to be learned here?

                1. We didn't need to draft guys for the slot.
                2. We needed to find guys that could catch the ball.

                We ignored that - braking both lessons - drafting JJ in the 3rd. Great athlete, not so much of a ball hawk.

                Randle, at least conceptually as an outside reciever, showed a great deal of that same hawking ability - so we took him in the 2nd. I get this pick, and Randle's fate is yet uncertain.

                So that lead to the 2014 drafting where we tried to get our mind right. So we went out and grabbed ODB. I think the giants would have had the ball hawk skill set over Evans height or even Watkins speed. It's possible the Gmen had ODB as the #1 WR.

                Compare an every down, ball hawking outside WR with the entire package of maturity, speed, athleticism, and route running (ie intelligence) to an undersized DT that may only be used on 3rd down because he'll get washed out against the run - it's a no brainer. So good call by the Gmen on that, ihmo.

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                • #38
                  The two guys ahead of Beckham had great hands too. Evans in particular came away with more contested catches than I can remember. Beckham has the higher drop rate among the three.

                  Manningham wasn't a natural hands catcher either. Randle was far from a ballhawk. That was his biggest issue. At 6'3'', he didn't fully extend for the ball as you would have liked. Jernigan was more of a hand plucker than Randle even at his diminutive size.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Generation Eli View Post
                    wait 3 years. If our 3rd rounder is still on the team, I'll buy you a brand new shiney galaxy s whatever or iphone whatever that year

                    cool?

                    basically what Im saying is, he sucks and he'll start to show sings of that this year. Cant wait!
                    So this post earned me a new phone
                    "I punched the **** out of em in the back with an uppercut"
                    - Marshawn Lynch

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
                      There is no exact science to this as we are both assuming, Donald was the #1 DT / Beckham was the #3 rated WR this much we know by the information provided to us. This is the deepest at WR a draft has ever been in a long time, we just lost out premier DT to the vikings, Donald based on the infer we have available to us was the BPA/need combo at 12, there might be something to him that the giants know about that made them look elsewhere, but it could not possibly have been due to the fact that they thought the answer was in-house, because they drafted Bromley and brought in 2-3 DT's in UDFA. I wonder what scared them away from Donald.
                      Beckahm wasnt the consensus #3 receiver, he has superior route running and leaps higher than Mike Evans some pundits had him as the highest in draft as well as many that had him at 2
                      "I punched the **** out of em in the back with an uppercut"
                      - Marshawn Lynch

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by penguinfarmer View Post
                        The two guys ahead of Beckham had great hands too. Evans in particular came away with more contested catches than I can remember. Beckham has the higher drop rate among the three.
                        That's one way to look at it. Drop percentage is a misleading stat. It's one thing to catch a screen, another to catch a 20+ yard bomb.

                        I think as some suggest, that the best way to see future success, is to see if those players had that same success in college. So here is catch rate by distance from the top prospects :



                        http://secondroundstats.com/?p=529

                        So you can see ODB has the highest percentage (66%) on passes over 10 yards. The fact that ODB made his living catching deeper than other guys - you can expect more drops.

                        You are right about JJ though. I went back to the draft profiles and most agreed. However, Randle could be a better plucker. It's just he is inconsistent. That's more a product of work ethic...
                        Last edited by ArizonaGiant; 05-20-2014, 12:29 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by gurujot View Post
                          Beckahm wasnt the consensus #3 receiver, he has superior route running and leaps higher than Mike Evans some pundits had him as the highest in draft as well as many that had him at 2
                          show me the link where some had Beckham ahead of Evans and I will believe that

                          Retweeted by Rueben Randle
                          @Katdaddyjay 17h
                          @RuebenRandle @OBJ_3 @Giants
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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by gurujot View Post
                            Beckahm wasnt the consensus #3 receiver, he has superior route running and leaps higher than Mike Evans some pundits had him as the highest in draft as well as many that had him at 2
                            I understand we all love ODB now that he is a Giant and I do suspect he will be a good player and will fit what we do here.

                            However, I spent a lot of time reading scouting reports, watching film, reading mocks and explanations etc.

                            Never once, that I can recall, this entire offseason heading into the draft did I see any analyst predict ODB going higher than Evans. I saw a couple with Evans over Watkins but as far as I can recall nobody had him behind ODB.

                            You are correct in that he was not a consensus #3 WR, but that is because some had him as 4th and even 5th, not 2nd.
                            sigpic

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                              I understand we all love ODB now that he is a Giant and I do suspect he will be a good player and will fit what we do here.

                              However, I spent a lot of time reading scouting reports, watching film, reading mocks and explanations etc.

                              Never once, that I can recall, this entire offseason heading into the draft did I see any analyst predict ODB going higher than Evans. I saw a couple with Evans over Watkins but as far as I can recall nobody had him behind ODB.

                              You are correct in that he was not a consensus #3 WR, but that is because some had him as 4th and even 5th, not 2nd.
                              Simply not true. Greg Cosell from NFL films had ODB as the second in his personal rankings. As did many teams in the top 10 this year. Im far too lazy to post links but a google search will confirm both.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
                                show me the link where some had Beckham ahead of Evans and I will believe that
                                http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jet...he-jets-select

                                http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs...6-a7053fc40db8
                                (look at what Gil Brandt and Pete Prisco had to say)

                                thats pullled from the first page of google proabably could find more
                                "I punched the **** out of em in the back with an uppercut"
                                - Marshawn Lynch

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