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  • Spizi
    started a topic First round DE

    First round DE

    The Giants are known for their pass rush up front and it will be in need of an upgrade after next year. Why? Because after next year Osi will be gone, and Tuck will be 30 and coming into a contract year. If you draft a DE now he will be ready to replace Osi when he leaves.

    Who do you guys like?

  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Blue daddy"]I would rather see LB or RB maybe more help in the secondary or how about someone who's a threat in punt or kick returns.[/quote] Lets not forget Jerrell Jerrnigan is only a Rook coming outta small Sun Belt confrence.. He still could be our answer to the KR issues..
    [/quote]

    I had high hopes from him coming out of college as a special team returner. But I have not liked what I have seen from him in that capacity. Its not a skillset people usually develop either, its more instinctive than anything and I havent seen those instincts at all.


    [/quote]

    I don't think he has to learn it per say, but just get used to the speed of the game. He was electric with the ball in his hands in college, and that was with the whole defense keying on him. Give him time before judging (like any rookie, but I think that's especially true with this year).

    Besides, the Giants haven't had a returner in YEARS who even looked decent (Hixon would bust a good one occasionally to skew the averages, but overall, they always had a 5-10yrd disadvantage in field position). It doesn't matter WHO they've got back there if the blocking doesn't improve. Hopefully Izzo will replace Quinn this offseason and teach guys how to block.
    [/quote] Your 100pct right on about Jerrnigan.. He hasen't even returned kicks for a full season for us and is coming outta smaller confrence in the Sun Belt which is way diffrent with the speed of the game.. Who knows how his confidence is right now(due to his pre-season and not playing basically at all this yr) and if he can get a big kick return or punt return it could be all it takes to get his confidence up and start realizing he does belong here.. I would never lose hope on a guy who hasen't even done the job for a full yr yet and is still a rookie.. Jerrnigan could certainly not be a good returner but its clearly to small a sample size especially for a kid whos used to playing all the time and had a rocky start to his career(with the drops in preseason).. I think alittle confidence can go along way with jerrnigan.. We definetly gotta give em more time as a player in general doing anything at all on the football field.. He basically gets a free pass in my opinion this yr especially on the WR end of things and yes as a returner as well
    [/quote]

    I kind of disagree.


    As far as JJ as a WR I do agree. We need to give him time to develop. I am 100% fine with that, its too early to judge and he absolutely gets a free pass.

    But as a return man, its about instincts. Its not about getting used to anything. He could improve a bit with confidence, but I do not see those instincts yet. I see a guy who doesnt set up his blockers on returns. He doesnt always make the proper cut and he doesnt seem to have the vision.

    If you are not a good return man the day you enter the NFL it is very unlikely you will develop into 1. You might learn some tricks but if the instincts arent there, they arent there. He has not been an instinctive return man at all.


    [/quote] I don't know about that.. The guys barley returned anything this yr.. Theres a 100pct diffrence in the speed of the game even on ST's when going to the pros from the Sun Belt.. Hes gotta get more chances then hes had to come up with even half a conclusion on what kinda returner he is.. Right now we have no clue on what kinda returner hes gonna be.. He just hasen't had that many opps
    [/quote]

    My thoughts exactly.

    Although, my thoughts also include "Set up his blockers... WHAT BLOCKERS!?" In all honesty, we could have Devon Hester back there and he'd look like a bum.
    [/quote] ya thats true our blockers are bad

    Leave a comment:


  • Raptor22
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Blue daddy"]I would rather see LB or RB maybe more help in the secondary or how about someone who's a threat in punt or kick returns.[/quote] Lets not forget Jerrell Jerrnigan is only a Rook coming outta small Sun Belt confrence.. He still could be our answer to the KR issues..
    [/quote]

    I had high hopes from him coming out of college as a special team returner. But I have not liked what I have seen from him in that capacity. Its not a skillset people usually develop either, its more instinctive than anything and I havent seen those instincts at all.


    [/quote]

    I don't think he has to learn it per say, but just get used to the speed of the game. He was electric with the ball in his hands in college, and that was with the whole defense keying on him. Give him time before judging (like any rookie, but I think that's especially true with this year).

    Besides, the Giants haven't had a returner in YEARS who even looked decent (Hixon would bust a good one occasionally to skew the averages, but overall, they always had a 5-10yrd disadvantage in field position). It doesn't matter WHO they've got back there if the blocking doesn't improve. Hopefully Izzo will replace Quinn this offseason and teach guys how to block.
    [/quote] Your 100pct right on about Jerrnigan.. He hasen't even returned kicks for a full season for us and is coming outta smaller confrence in the Sun Belt which is way diffrent with the speed of the game.. Who knows how his confidence is right now(due to his pre-season and not playing basically at all this yr) and if he can get a big kick return or punt return it could be all it takes to get his confidence up and start realizing he does belong here.. I would never lose hope on a guy who hasen't even done the job for a full yr yet and is still a rookie.. Jerrnigan could certainly not be a good returner but its clearly to small a sample size especially for a kid whos used to playing all the time and had a rocky start to his career(with the drops in preseason).. I think alittle confidence can go along way with jerrnigan.. We definetly gotta give em more time as a player in general doing anything at all on the football field.. He basically gets a free pass in my opinion this yr especially on the WR end of things and yes as a returner as well
    [/quote]

    I kind of disagree.


    As far as JJ as a WR I do agree. We need to give him time to develop. I am 100% fine with that, its too early to judge and he absolutely gets a free pass.

    But as a return man, its about instincts. Its not about getting used to anything. He could improve a bit with confidence, but I do not see those instincts yet. I see a guy who doesnt set up his blockers on returns. He doesnt always make the proper cut and he doesnt seem to have the vision.

    If you are not a good return man the day you enter the NFL it is very unlikely you will develop into 1. You might learn some tricks but if the instincts arent there, they arent there. He has not been an instinctive return man at all.


    [/quote] I don't know about that.. The guys barley returned anything this yr.. Theres a 100pct diffrence in the speed of the game even on ST's when going to the pros from the Sun Belt.. Hes gotta get more chances then hes had to come up with even half a conclusion on what kinda returner he is.. Right now we have no clue on what kinda returner hes gonna be.. He just hasen't had that many opps
    [/quote]

    My thoughts exactly.

    Although, my thoughts also include "Set up his blockers... WHAT BLOCKERS!?" In all honesty, we could have Devon Hester back there and he'd look like a bum.

    Leave a comment:


  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Blue daddy"]I would rather see LB or RB maybe more help in the secondary or how about someone who's a threat in punt or kick returns.[/quote] Lets not forget Jerrell Jerrnigan is only a Rook coming outta small Sun Belt confrence.. He still could be our answer to the KR issues..
    [/quote]

    I had high hopes from him coming out of college as a special team returner. But I have not liked what I have seen from him in that capacity. Its not a skillset people usually develop either, its more instinctive than anything and I havent seen those instincts at all.


    [/quote]

    I don't think he has to learn it per say, but just get used to the speed of the game. He was electric with the ball in his hands in college, and that was with the whole defense keying on him. Give him time before judging (like any rookie, but I think that's especially true with this year).

    Besides, the Giants haven't had a returner in YEARS who even looked decent (Hixon would bust a good one occasionally to skew the averages, but overall, they always had a 5-10yrd disadvantage in field position). It doesn't matter WHO they've got back there if the blocking doesn't improve. Hopefully Izzo will replace Quinn this offseason and teach guys how to block.
    [/quote] Your 100pct right on about Jerrnigan.. He hasen't even returned kicks for a full season for us and is coming outta smaller confrence in the Sun Belt which is way diffrent with the speed of the game.. Who knows how his confidence is right now(due to his pre-season and not playing basically at all this yr) and if he can get a big kick return or punt return it could be all it takes to get his confidence up and start realizing he does belong here.. I would never lose hope on a guy who hasen't even done the job for a full yr yet and is still a rookie.. Jerrnigan could certainly not be a good returner but its clearly to small a sample size especially for a kid whos used to playing all the time and had a rocky start to his career(with the drops in preseason).. I think alittle confidence can go along way with jerrnigan.. We definetly gotta give em more time as a player in general doing anything at all on the football field.. He basically gets a free pass in my opinion this yr especially on the WR end of things and yes as a returner as well
    [/quote]

    I kind of disagree.


    As far as JJ as a WR I do agree. We need to give him time to develop. I am 100% fine with that, its too early to judge and he absolutely gets a free pass.

    But as a return man, its about instincts. Its not about getting used to anything. He could improve a bit with confidence, but I do not see those instincts yet. I see a guy who doesnt set up his blockers on returns. He doesnt always make the proper cut and he doesnt seem to have the vision.

    If you are not a good return man the day you enter the NFL it is very unlikely you will develop into 1. You might learn some tricks but if the instincts arent there, they arent there. He has not been an instinctive return man at all.


    [/quote] I don't know about that.. The guys barley returned anything this yr.. Theres a 100pct diffrence in the speed of the game even on ST's when going to the pros from the Sun Belt.. Hes gotta get more chances then hes had to come up with even half a conclusion on what kinda returner he is.. Right now we have no clue on what kinda returner hes gonna be.. He just hasen't had that many opps

    Leave a comment:


  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Im really not high on the earlier guys. I would take a guy like Jonathan Massaquoi later and hope they can teach him how to play Football. The other guys just dont have the edge rushing ability Im looking for to replace a guy like Osi if he indeed leaves.[/quote] I can't believe your not high on mercilus.. THe guys a playmaker with perfect 4/3 DE size who forces turnovers just like OSI and is a complete player unlike Osi.. mercilus and jpp would form one freakishly good DE DUO going forward..
    [/quote]There not going to get Mercilus I think he will be picked[/quote] Oh i coulden't agree more.. He'll be gone way before as i perdicted about a month ago that he'd be gone in the top 20picks(actually guranteed it i believe?) .. Hes a guy i knew was gonna be a high riser.. Way to dominant in a pretty good league to not rise.. Hes also a complete DE that can stop the run and cause havoc as a pass rusher..

    Leave a comment:


  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Im really not high on the earlier guys. I would take a guy like Jonathan Massaquoi later and hope they can teach him how to play Football. The other guys just dont have the edge rushing ability Im looking for to replace a guy like Osi if he indeed leaves.[/quote] I can't believe your not high on mercilus.. THe guys a playmaker with perfect 4/3 DE size who forces turnovers just like OSI and is a complete player unlike Osi.. mercilus and jpp would form one freakishly good DE DUO going forward..
    [/quote]There not going to get Mercilus I think he will be picked

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueSanta
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Blue daddy"]I would rather see LB or RB maybe more help in the secondary or how about someone who's a threat in punt or kick returns.[/quote] Lets not forget Jerrell Jerrnigan is only a Rook coming outta small Sun Belt confrence.. He still could be our answer to the KR issues..
    [/quote]

    I had high hopes from him coming out of college as a special team returner. But I have not liked what I have seen from him in that capacity. Its not a skillset people usually develop either, its more instinctive than anything and I havent seen those instincts at all.


    [/quote]

    I don't think he has to learn it per say, but just get used to the speed of the game. He was electric with the ball in his hands in college, and that was with the whole defense keying on him. Give him time before judging (like any rookie, but I think that's especially true with this year).

    Besides, the Giants haven't had a returner in YEARS who even looked decent (Hixon would bust a good one occasionally to skew the averages, but overall, they always had a 5-10yrd disadvantage in field position). It doesn't matter WHO they've got back there if the blocking doesn't improve. Hopefully Izzo will replace Quinn this offseason and teach guys how to block.
    [/quote] Your 100pct right on about Jerrnigan.. He hasen't even returned kicks for a full season for us and is coming outta smaller confrence in the Sun Belt which is way diffrent with the speed of the game.. Who knows how his confidence is right now(due to his pre-season and not playing basically at all this yr) and if he can get a big kick return or punt return it could be all it takes to get his confidence up and start realizing he does belong here.. I would never lose hope on a guy who hasen't even done the job for a full yr yet and is still a rookie.. Jerrnigan could certainly not be a good returner but its clearly to small a sample size especially for a kid whos used to playing all the time and had a rocky start to his career(with the drops in preseason).. I think alittle confidence can go along way with jerrnigan.. We definetly gotta give em more time as a player in general doing anything at all on the football field.. He basically gets a free pass in my opinion this yr especially on the WR end of things and yes as a returner as well
    [/quote]

    I kind of disagree.


    As far as JJ as a WR I do agree. We need to give him time to develop. I am 100% fine with that, its too early to judge and he absolutely gets a free pass.

    But as a return man, its about instincts. Its not about getting used to anything. He could improve a bit with confidence, but I do not see those instincts yet. I see a guy who doesnt set up his blockers on returns. He doesnt always make the proper cut and he doesnt seem to have the vision.

    If you are not a good return man the day you enter the NFL it is very unlikely you will develop into 1. You might learn some tricks but if the instincts arent there, they arent there. He has not been an instinctive return man at all.


    Leave a comment:


  • Shockeyitus
    replied
    Re: First round DE



    [quote user="nycsportzfan"] If the Giants wait on a DE untill mid rds I'd take a good hard look at Tyrone Crawford DE Boise St.. Hes not the fastest player off the edge but has a great big and strong frame and a great feel for the game.. Some guys just know how to play this game and Tyrone Crawford is extremely underrated and whoever gets him will get a very nice value pick in the mid rd's
    [/quote]







    Chandler Jones, DE - Syracuse... 6'5, 270ish... long and athletic! Round 3-4

    Leave a comment:


  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    If the Giants wait on a DE untill mid rds I'd take a good hard look at Tyrone Crawford DE Boise St.. Hes not the fastest player off the edge but has a great big and strong frame and a great feel for the game.. Some guys just know how to play this game and Tyrone Crawford is extremely underrated and whoever gets him will get a very nice value pick in the mid rd's

    Leave a comment:


  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"]Im really not high on the earlier guys. I would take a guy like Jonathan Massaquoi later and hope they can teach him how to play Football. The other guys just dont have the edge rushing ability Im looking for to replace a guy like Osi if he indeed leaves.[/quote] I can't believe your not high on mercilus.. THe guys a playmaker with perfect 4/3 DE size who forces turnovers just like OSI and is a complete player unlike Osi.. mercilus and jpp would form one freakishly good DE DUO going forward..

    Leave a comment:


  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Shockeyitus"]I like the Crick pick and if he is around in round 4... he is definately worth grabbing. Like you said, he is versitile and can play DE/DT. Reminds me of a poor mans JJ Watt.[/quote]

    theres still talk of crick being a first rounder. probably more of a 2nd rounder, but falling to the end of the fourth round just is not going to happen[/quote] ya there is no way Crick goes even to the end of RD 3 let alone RD 4.. Hes at worst a mid to late 2nd rder with late 1st possiblity.. Shoot even the giants are a possiblity for Crick in RD 1..
    [/quote]

    A healthy Crick, absolutely. But, with his injury, if he can't go at the combine, I can see GM's shying away.

    Great prospect for the Giants though: versatile, ferocious hitter, fluid, and very high character. I'd give him the Tuck treatment; situational inside rusher (just think of him and Austin stunting while Tuck and JPP come off the edges, and Kiwi blitzes), and brought along as LDE as Tuck ages.[/quote] I'd be shocked if he dosen't go in RD 2 even if he dosen't go to the combine and participate.. I think his versatility and the possiblity of having a guy who can rush the passer from end or tackle is gonna be to much for teams to pass on.. If Cricks there when we pick in RD 2 and we didn't go Dline in RD 1 i think we'll take em..

    Leave a comment:


  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Blue daddy"]I would rather see LB or RB maybe more help in the secondary or how about someone who's a threat in punt or kick returns.[/quote] Lets not forget Jerrell Jerrnigan is only a Rook coming outta small Sun Belt confrence.. He still could be our answer to the KR issues..
    [/quote]

    I had high hopes from him coming out of college as a special team returner. But I have not liked what I have seen from him in that capacity. Its not a skillset people usually develop either, its more instinctive than anything and I havent seen those instincts at all.


    [/quote]

    I don't think he has to learn it per say, but just get used to the speed of the game. He was electric with the ball in his hands in college, and that was with the whole defense keying on him. Give him time before judging (like any rookie, but I think that's especially true with this year).

    Besides, the Giants haven't had a returner in YEARS who even looked decent (Hixon would bust a good one occasionally to skew the averages, but overall, they always had a 5-10yrd disadvantage in field position). It doesn't matter WHO they've got back there if the blocking doesn't improve. Hopefully Izzo will replace Quinn this offseason and teach guys how to block.
    [/quote] Your 100pct right on about Jerrnigan.. He hasen't even returned kicks for a full season for us and is coming outta smaller confrence in the Sun Belt which is way diffrent with the speed of the game.. Who knows how his confidence is right now(due to his pre-season and not playing basically at all this yr) and if he can get a big kick return or punt return it could be all it takes to get his confidence up and start realizing he does belong here.. I would never lose hope on a guy who hasen't even done the job for a full yr yet and is still a rookie.. Jerrnigan could certainly not be a good returner but its clearly to small a sample size especially for a kid whos used to playing all the time and had a rocky start to his career(with the drops in preseason).. I think alittle confidence can go along way with jerrnigan.. We definetly gotta give em more time as a player in general doing anything at all on the football field.. He basically gets a free pass in my opinion this yr especially on the WR end of things and yes as a returner as well

    Leave a comment:


  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    Im really not high on the earlier guys. I would take a guy like Jonathan Massaquoi later and hope they can teach him how to play Football. The other guys just dont have the edge rushing ability Im looking for to replace a guy like Osi if he indeed leaves.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raptor22
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Blue daddy"]I would rather see LB or RB maybe more help in the secondary or how about someone who's a threat in punt or kick returns.[/quote] Lets not forget Jerrell Jerrnigan is only a Rook coming outta small Sun Belt confrence.. He still could be our answer to the KR issues..
    [/quote]

    I had high hopes from him coming out of college as a special team returner. But I have not liked what I have seen from him in that capacity. Its not a skillset people usually develop either, its more instinctive than anything and I havent seen those instincts at all.


    [/quote]

    I don't think he has to learn it per say, but just get used to the speed of the game. He was electric with the ball in his hands in college, and that was with the whole defense keying on him. Give him time before judging (like any rookie, but I think that's especially true with this year).

    Besides, the Giants haven't had a returner in YEARS who even looked decent (Hixon would bust a good one occasionally to skew the averages, but overall, they always had a 5-10yrd disadvantage in field position). It doesn't matter WHO they've got back there if the blocking doesn't improve. Hopefully Izzo will replace Quinn this offseason and teach guys how to block.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueSanta
    replied
    Re: First round DE

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Blue daddy"]I would rather see LB or RB maybe more help in the secondary or how about someone who's a threat in punt or kick returns.[/quote] Lets not forget Jerrell Jerrnigan is only a Rook coming outta small Sun Belt confrence.. He still could be our answer to the KR issues..
    [/quote]

    I had high hopes from him coming out of college as a special team returner. But I have not liked what I have seen from him in that capacity. Its not a skillset people usually develop either, its more instinctive than anything and I havent seen those instincts at all.


    Leave a comment:

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