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Favorite OL This Year

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  • #46
    Originally posted by compaqnigg View Post
    I was taught in debate class when someone laughs or makes a negative comment as a response, it is a sign of losing a debate. It means they have no real response or way of proving you wrong. I give data and evidence.
    You were taught correctly.

    When you see someone openly admits they're dismissing your position without even reading it, due to "you having a lack of logic" while making the foundation of said claim, their dislike for how long the paragraphs are...well you're not dealing with Einstein. Someone better suited for "are you smarter than a 4th grader"...

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    • #47
      So rather then just provide my opinion on the matter of 40 times correlating to pass pro skill and deem it correct by using the argument, if they move fast forward, they must move fast backwards (paraphrasing here of course), I thought to do a little looking into the matter.

      "There wasn't a lot of things coming out of the small sample set of Combine data that looked promising projecting forward, but there was strong data coming from tackles who had already established themselves in the league. The strongest relationship between Combine numbers and pass blocking performance turned out to be dividing a player's shuttle time by their weight.

      Overall, a somewhat more complicated formula fits the performance of successful pass blockers better.



      All this implies is that a fast shuttle time, a quick 10-yard split and a fast three cone score are all important, but more important than the raw data isn't much without the context of how much weight the tackle is moving around. Being hard to bull rush is helpful, and that's why weight is a good thing to put on, but footwork is critical. More than that, additional reps beyond 28 don't really mean much for pass protectors.

      It's not a surprise that the shuttle drill has a strong relationship with pass blocking—there's a lot about it that simulates pass blocking in itself."

      Thats from an article by a writer at sbnation.

      Now, I can't speak to the credentials of this writer, I can, however, infer that they did a fair bit of research into it.

      They also used paragraphs, to which I must admit, did make all the rambling easier to read and enabled me to digest the material much easier.

      So after all this, long post and all, there is a small correlation between 40 times and pass pro, or being able to predict the athlete's ability in that area...small enough to overlook that events timing if other events numbers are well enough (10 yard split, shuttle time).
      my beer drinking team has a football problem

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      • #48
        Originally posted by compaqnigg View Post
        Greg Robinson is one of the anomalies for sure. Eric Fisher has been rated quite high by PFF in his 2016 performance for run blocking. Listing him as the 11th best run blocker in the league. His pass blocking could use work. Here's their 2016 rankings: https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro...s-this-season/. Jake Fisher was a 2nd round draft choice, I wouldn't add him to the list of "top prospects". You can't teach speed, but you can teach fundamentals. None of the top prospects in 2015 ran a sub 5.0, 40 yard dash. Brandon Scherff was very close to that mark but he doesn't play tackle but rather guard. All of the tackles in 2013 have not been highly rated. That is Andrus Peat, Ereck Flowers, D.J. Humphries, and Cedric Ogbuehi (Ogbuehi was benched, Peat has been moved around because he isn't effective).
        Why wouldn't Jake fisher be a good measuring stick? If the 40 is the best way to project players it shouldn't matter where they were picked. The reality is the 40 has nothing to do with why a player failed. His teammate Ogbuehi most likely would have ran very fast too if he actually tested. Movement skills were never am issue with him but he's so damn weak it's irrelevant. Matt kalil played well initially, but has been trash since, if you want to throw another name out there.

        The thing about a pass set is that none of it is natural. There is absolutely nothing natural about moving backwards while someone comes towards you. This is why offensive line is the great equalizer for athletes with and without prototypical athletic traits. Everything you do has to be learned. It's not like RB or LB. It's why players like Zach Strief, Larry Warford, Andrew Whitworth, and Travis Frederick can play so long in this league. Because there's way more to it than how fast you run in a straight line.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by poppa smurph View Post
          So rather then just provide my opinion on the matter of 40 times correlating to pass pro skill and deem it correct by using the argument, if they move fast forward, they must move fast backwards (paraphrasing here of course), I thought to do a little looking into the matter.

          "There wasn't a lot of things coming out of the small sample set of Combine data that looked promising projecting forward, but there was strong data coming from tackles who had already established themselves in the league. The strongest relationship between Combine numbers and pass blocking performance turned out to be dividing a player's shuttle time by their weight.

          Overall, a somewhat more complicated formula fits the performance of successful pass blockers better.



          All this implies is that a fast shuttle time, a quick 10-yard split and a fast three cone score are all important, but more important than the raw data isn't much without the context of how much weight the tackle is moving around. Being hard to bull rush is helpful, and that's why weight is a good thing to put on, but footwork is critical. More than that, additional reps beyond 28 don't really mean much for pass protectors.

          It's not a surprise that the shuttle drill has a strong relationship with pass blocking—there's a lot about it that simulates pass blocking in itself."

          Thats from an article by a writer at sbnation.

          Now, I can't speak to the credentials of this writer, I can, however, infer that they did a fair bit of research into it.

          They also used paragraphs, to which I must admit, did make all the rambling easier to read and enabled me to digest the material much easier.

          So after all this, long post and all, there is a small correlation between 40 times and pass pro, or being able to predict the athlete's ability in that area...small enough to overlook that events timing if other events numbers are well enough (10 yard split, shuttle time).
          I'm with you on this, thanks for saving me much typing,,,

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          • #50
            Along with the bench, the 3 cone drill, and the 40yd shuttle are probably the most important drills when it comeans to OL drills at the combine.... Well and position drills too

            40 doesn't mean as much because the OL work in confined areas, not over 40yds in 1 play
            Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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            • #51
              Gil Brandt made a comment relative to Lamp last night on NFL Radio.

              Basically said -- beware when there is a perception that a particular draft position group (OL) is weak. That undeserving players will be pushed higher.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by BleedingBlue123 View Post
                Gil Brandt made a comment relative to Lamp last night on NFL Radio.

                Basically said -- beware when there is a perception that a particular draft position group (OL) is weak. That undeserving players will be pushed higher.
                Supply and demand.

                At 23, I'd hate to see us call the 3rd or 4th name on our Oline board for the sake of getting help to the Oline, all the while proclaiming that name to be the top player on our board.
                my beer drinking team has a football problem

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                • #53
                  I like Ramcyzk as my top pick. Lamp looks awesome but I'd hate if the Giants pick another guy that ends up at guard. Bolles is 25 already and not strong enough. He should've filled out by now.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by compaqnigg View Post
                    He might stink now, but he wasn't bad in his earlier years. He was voted 2nd in 2009 as Offensive Rookie of the Year by the Associated Press. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...the_Year_Award He was good enough to be on a Super Bowl winning team in 2012. How many great offensive linemen do you see drafted into the NFL that never win a Super Bowl? A lot!
                    The fact that he won a super bowl is irrelevant and has nothing to do with his successes on the field as a football player
                    Why the Giants will win the SuperBowl!!!

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QPvmhCcsnY&t=1s

                    Interview With Darian Thompson: https://youtu.be/vvqLbM6emGE

                    My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSW...BrHBI_v2XKQb5A

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by BleedingBlue123 View Post
                      Gil Brandt made a comment relative to Lamp last night on NFL Radio.

                      Basically said -- beware when there is a perception that a particular draft position group (OL) is weak. That undeserving players will be pushed higher.
                      The Guards are pretty good this year, its not fair that theyre getting all grouped together with the rest of the OL, which isnt so hot this year.

                      Its easy to say "the whole OL class isnt that strong this year" when there isnt a top 5 LT pick or a top 10 LT pick, but that doesnt mean the Guards arent good

                      Id be thrilled to get: Lamp, Feeney, Dawkins, Dorian Johnson, or Issac Asiata in the draft this year. I feel like any 1 of those guys could step in and play day 1
                      Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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                      • #56
                        Really becoming a big fan of Dion Dawkins from Temple and Dorian Johnson from Pitt these days. I feel like they have more value than Lamp, who I think is an AWESOME player, but I feel that the talent gap between the 3 isnt worth a 1st round pick when we could get Dawkins or Johnson in the 2nd or 3rd.

                        Both guys are big athletic OL who could play RT or OG
                        Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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