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This is the wrong draft for Giants to save their offensive line

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  • #61
    IF you like 'yards before contact' as a measure of OL:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comment...y_run_concept/


    Spoiler, doesn't look pretty for the Giants.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
      Okay. how about this then:

      Austin Hooper TE/Falcons: 19 receptions for 271 yards.
      Levine Toilolo TE/Falcons: 13 receptions for 264 yards.

      Will Tye TE/Giants: 48 receptions for 395 yards
      How about what? I don't even know what point you're trying to make here, or why you left out Jacob Tamme of the Falcons and Larry Donnell and Jerell Adams on the Giants. Are you attempting to make the point that because Atlanta uses their TEs sparsely but efficiently and effectively, then that means we should aim to also use the TE sparingly and be significantly worse than them at using the position? Those Atlanta TEs were catching passes downfield at a 70% clip. Our guys had the same catch rate while catching virtually everything 5 yards off the line. These aren't comparable situations. I know you used Atlanta because you couldn't make whatever point you were trying to make using the Patriots, who overinvest at TE over the majority of the league because they understand better than most about market inefficiencies.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by PRGiant View Post
        IF you like 'yards before contact' as a measure of OL:

        https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comment...y_run_concept/


        Spoiler, doesn't look pretty for the Giants.
        That's actually better than I thought it would be. Our league average Power rank is a testament to Justin Pugh's effectiveness at pulling.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by CRF11504 View Post
          McAdoo dispelled that myth.

          It's why 80% of the OL will be the same.

          It's why WR was addressed first in FA.
          so what you're saying is you didnt watch the Giants? What do you think McAdoo is going to say when asked about his OL? 'No they suck we must improve there or the seasons over'?? Of course he's going to defend them and try and take the heat off them. His 3 potential OTs right now are all young players who have not been too good so far in their careers. You dont tear down their confidence in March.

          maybe the OL will be pretty much the same next year. I've never said it's not possible. Reese has set the team so it's possible Giants could go into the season with the guys we have. The Giants have taken steps to make the offense a better running team with Fluker Ellison and Bmarsh. And if the Giants can become a better running team it will help the OL with pass rushing and just help the offense in general.

          It's also possible the Giants draft OL to help further build their OL. Fluker is on a 1 year deal. Flowers has 1 year to prove himself. Hart we dk what we're going to get from him. Just like the Giants took Eli Apple when there was already two projected starting CBs, it's possible the Giants go OL early in the draft to create more competition and have a plan for the future.

          and btw WR was added first because he was cut by the Jets and we could add him before FA even started. saying we added WR first means it was most important is shortsighted.
          Last edited by gibril28wilson; 04-21-2017, 08:38 AM.

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          • #65
            Take BPA and that will not be OL. Some very highly rated "top ten talent" will fall to back end of rd 1, it happens every year.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by SugarBear56 View Post
              Take BPA and that will not be OL.
              Why does everyone seem so sure of their opinions on this thread? Not singling you out, it's many posters. Unless this is your first time doing your draft homework, we should all know anything is possible and your BPA is prob not JRs.
              2017 Draft Wishlist:
              1. Christian McCaffrey RB Stanford
              2. Raekwon McMillan ILB Ohio State
              3. Roderick Johnson OT Florida State
              4. Jordan Leggett TE Clemson
              5. Ryan Glasgow DT Michegan
              6. Chad Kelly QB Ole Miss
              7. Billy Brown WR Shepherd

              sigpic
              "Behold, the tailgate party. The pinnacle of human achievement. Since the dawn of parking lots, man has sought to fill his gut with food and alcohol in anticipation of watching others exercise."
              - Homer J. Simpson

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by TAILGATIN' View Post
                Why does everyone seem so sure of their opinions on this thread? Not singling you out, it's many posters. Unless this is your first time doing your draft homework, we should all know anything is possible and your BPA is prob not JRs.
                Because its fun to have strong opinions, even if you end up being wrong. Last year was the first year i got into the draft hype. Just enjoying all the possibilities. You know what they say every team wins the Super bowl in the spring. Especially Dallas. Every spring the media has them as SB champs. lol Its just our chance as fans to play GM and say what we think could/should might be done. No big deal. We enjoy discussing it. That's all. I try to keep it light.

                Only one opinion (mine lol)

                2 cents

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by BigBlueAllDay View Post
                  Okay, combining the numbers of all the tight ends from each team. That's 37 receptions for 577 yards at 15.5 yards per TE reception from the 2016 Falcons offense vs. 76 receptions for 609 yards at 8 yards per TE reception for the 2016 Giants offense. That's approximately twice the receptions for similar yardage from the Giants offense. Notice I'm not comparing just TE players themselves anymore.
                  No matter how you crunch the numbers, you're not going to convince anyone that the Falcons were successful and the Giants weren't, because of difference at TE.
                  2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

                  Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
                  Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
                  Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
                  Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
                  Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
                  Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
                  Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Giant303 View Post
                    I don't see the giants going online before the 4th..and I'm ok with that. as long as they get an edge rusher a 3 tech and a te/rb.

                    this o line class sucks, don't think there are any Lt that would start over flowers.
                    If we skip on OT we will need the best edge rusher in the draft, a helluva 3 tech and yeah, we have to address TE and RB. Defense wins championships, but you need a serviceable OL. A good blocking and offensive threat at TE would do wonders for our offense.

                    Tough to say who could start over Flowers, at least in year one. I think Ram could definitely start ahead of him. I would say Cam as well but I'd be at 70% confidence on that. In year two I think both could and I would throw Garcia in there as well.

                    Another thing to consider in all this is can Flowers just get better? I mean, I thought he looked decent to start the season.
                    2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

                    Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
                    Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
                    Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
                    Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
                    Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
                    Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
                    Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by BigBlueAllDay View Post
                      That's 14 yards per TE reception and 20 yards per TE reception on the Falcons vs. 8 yards per TE reception for Will Tye.
                      Bingo.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Getting Brandon Marshall reduces our need for a good TE. at least for the two years he's signed for. The great thing about Marshall is his red zone play.
                        He's going to be a huge addition to our offense.

                        I'm guessing we just let the board come to us and pick the BPA, which would be a departure for JR in RD 1.

                        Maybe someone will fall. Or maybe a QB will be there that we can't pass up, like Mahomes.
                        Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by gibril28wilson View Post
                          so what you're saying is you didnt watch the Giants? What do you think McAdoo is going to say when asked about his OL? 'No they suck we must improve there or the seasons over'?? Of course he's going to defend them and try and take the heat off them. His 3 potential OTs right now are all young players who have not been too good so far in their careers. You dont tear down their confidence in March.

                          maybe the OL will be pretty much the same next year. I've never said it's not possible. Reese has set the team so it's possible Giants could go into the season with the guys we have. The Giants have taken steps to make the offense a better running team with Fluker Ellison and Bmarsh. And if the Giants can become a better running team it will help the OL with pass rushing and just help the offense in general.

                          It's also possible the Giants draft OL to help further build their OL. Fluker is on a 1 year deal. Flowers has 1 year to prove himself. Hart we dk what we're going to get from him. Just like the Giants took Eli Apple when there was already two projected starting CBs, it's possible the Giants go OL early in the draft to create more competition and have a plan for the future.

                          and btw WR was added first because he was cut by the Jets and we could add him before FA even started. saying we added WR first means it was most important is shortsighted.
                          I think thats an easy blame, an easy one-liner that you can throw out there and think you have all the answers, McAdoo said, via Newsday. I dont necessarily agree with that.

                          http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...s-eli-manning/

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Onyxmeth View Post
                            How about what? I don't even know what point you're trying to make here, or why you left out Jacob Tamme of the Falcons and Larry Donnell and Jerell Adams on the Giants. Are you attempting to make the point that because Atlanta uses their TEs sparsely but efficiently and effectively, then that means we should aim to also use the TE sparingly and be significantly worse than them at using the position? Those Atlanta TEs were catching passes downfield at a 70% clip. Our guys had the same catch rate while catching virtually everything 5 yards off the line. These aren't comparable situations. I know you used Atlanta because you couldn't make whatever point you were trying to make using the Patriots, who overinvest at TE over the majority of the league because they understand better than most about market inefficiencies.
                            I used the Falcons because they made it to the Super Bowl and came pretty damn close to winning. Why would I include a TE that only played the first half of the season?

                            The point I'm making is that TE is not our "#1 need". As I've stated, we definitely need an upgrade, but I'm pointing out a team being very successful without an elite TE. They do however have an incredible offensive line. Their OL kinda gives me some hope. Matthews was atrocious his first year (perhaps due to his ankle injury) but was a totally different player in year 2. Schraeder I don't think was even drafted and has become one of the top RTs in the league. When they added Mack, that also gave them one of the best OL in the league.

                            As for the Patriots... I remember reading at one point in the season their LT was rated in the top 5 and their RT was rated #1 in the league. So we can use Patriots as an example if you'd like.
                            2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

                            Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
                            Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
                            Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
                            Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
                            Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
                            Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
                            Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                              Getting Brandon Marshall reduces our need for a good TE. at least for the two years he's signed for. The great thing about Marshall is his red zone play.
                              He's going to be a huge addition to our offense.

                              I'm guessing we just let the board come to us and pick the BPA, which would be a departure for JR in RD 1.

                              Maybe someone will fall. Or maybe a QB will be there that we can't pass up, like Mahomes.


                              Wrong, it's a mismatch passing offense. Optimally, you want 3 mismatch WRs plus a mismatch TE. That mismatch TE is missing still.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
                                I used the Falcons because they made it to the Super Bowl and came pretty damn close to winning. Why would I include a TE that only played the first half of the season?

                                The point I'm making is that TE is not our "#1 need". As I've stated, we definitely need an upgrade, but I'm pointing out a team being very successful without an elite TE. They do however have an incredible offensive line. Their OL kinda gives me some hope. Matthews was atrocious his first year (perhaps due to his ankle injury) but was a totally different player in year 2. Schraeder I don't think was even drafted and has become one of the top RTs in the league. When they added Mack, that also gave them one of the best OL in the league.

                                As for the Patriots... I remember reading at one point in the season their LT was rated in the top 5 and their RT was rated #1 in the league. So we can use Patriots as an example if you'd like.

                                Wow, you are totally wrong. The Giants do not have a single threat at TE. Not one guy that worries defenses.

                                Comment

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