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  • #31
    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Kase-1"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Neverend"]Interesting, Fleener has moved ahead of Allen in Mayock's new rankings after he initially had Allen ahead of fleener 2 weeks ago[/quote]

    Wait for the Combine.[/quote]Im not a fan of the combine, I feel that it somewhat overshadows the actual in-game performance and to me Id rather judge actual gameplay
    [/quote]

    I totally agree.

    That doesn't change the fact that the draft boards and all the mock drafts will change considerably after the Combine.[/quote]

    Game tape is king. But when you have 2 guys, Like Fleener and Allen who are so close in prospect every little thing matters.

    But, the posters here and fans in general think its the 40 time, or Bench Press or whatever that matter, that just isnt true. that stuff is like 80% fluff 20% important. What matters most about the combine are the drills, the doctor examinations and above all else, the interviews. All the things we cant see.

    Being an NFL player is a full time job more than ever now. The days of Joe Namath offseason of boozing and partying are over. The combine helps find those guys who perhaps dont take the offseason seriously and therefor maybe dont deserve top dollar. It also helps find the guys harboring secret injuries, like Da'Quan Bowers who prior to the combine some had as a posible 1st overal selection. He ended up being picked 51st because of the knee concerns 1st raised by his decision to only lift at the combine and his examinations.

    I have always said that players who skip the combine in favor of pro day only workouts(for poor reasons, cant blame a guy for an injury) often cost themselves big. Ive been told more than a few times that scouts take pro days with a grain of salt. Its gotten better in recent years, but as long as school who have a vested interest in where the player gets drafted have a say in setting up the pro day workouts, then you have to question them. As we have seen throughout the years at the combine and senior bowls, these school lie about size/weight in media guides and work habits, so why trust their pro day setups? I could give some examples of situations where schools have been questioned about the pro day setups in the past for notable athletes. There is a reason scouts have asked schools for more control in how things are set up. The combine removes the question mark completely because it is a level playing field for all.
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    • #32
      Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

      Ithink both could be good TEs but I'd pick Fleener if I had my choice of the two, Allen would be a great pick too.
      The Gigalo with the most below

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

        [quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Kase-1"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Neverend"]Interesting, Fleener has moved ahead of Allen in Mayock's new rankings after he initially had Allen ahead of fleener 2 weeks ago[/quote]

        Wait for the Combine.[/quote]Im not a fan of the combine, I feel that it somewhat overshadows the actual in-game performance and to me Id rather judge actual gameplay
        [/quote]

        I totally agree.

        That doesn't change the fact that the draft boards and all the mock drafts will change considerably after the Combine.[/quote]

        Game tape is king. But when you have 2 guys, Like Fleener and Allen who are so close in prospect every little thing matters.

        But, the posters here and fans in general think its the 40 time, or Bench Press or whatever that matter, that just isnt true. that stuff is like 80% fluff 20% important.* What matters most about the combine are the drills, the doctor examinations and above all else, the interviews. All the things we cant see.

        Being an NFL player is a full time job more than ever now.* The days of Joe Namath offseason of boozing and partying are over.* The combine helps find those guys who perhaps dont take the offseason seriously and therefor maybe dont deserve top dollar. It also helps find the guys harboring secret injuries, like Da'Quan Bowers who prior to the combine some had as a posible 1st overal selection. He ended up being picked 51st because of the knee concerns 1st raised by his decision to only lift at the combine and his examinations.

        I have always said that players who skip the combine in favor of pro day only workouts(for poor reasons, cant blame a guy for an injury) often cost themselves big. Ive been told more than a few times that scouts take pro days with a grain of salt. Its gotten better in recent years, but as long as school who have a vested interest in where the player gets drafted have a say in setting up the pro day workouts, then you have to question them. As we have seen throughout the years at the combine and senior bowls, these school lie about size/weight in media guides and work habits, so why trust their pro day setups? I could give some examples of situations where schools have been questioned about the pro day setups in the past for notable athletes. There is a reason scouts have asked schools for more control in how things are set up. The combine removes the question mark completely because it is a level playing field for all.
        [/quote]

        I agree with everything you posted but a flashy 40 time at the Combine still changes everything come draft day (for the speed positions anyway).

        Just ask Taylor Mays.
        I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

          [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Kase-1"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Neverend"]Interesting, Fleener has moved ahead of Allen in Mayock's new rankings after he initially had Allen ahead of fleener 2 weeks ago[/quote]

          Wait for the Combine.[/quote]Im not a fan of the combine, I feel that it somewhat overshadows the actual in-game performance and to me Id rather judge actual gameplay
          [/quote]

          I totally agree.

          That doesn't change the fact that the draft boards and all the mock drafts will change considerably after the Combine.[/quote]I also admit im no talent scout, but I feel like the combine clouds judgement

          Im FINE with other teams looking strictly at the combine, leaves better in-game players for us, LOL
          Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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          • #35
            Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

            [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Kase-1"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Neverend"]Interesting, Fleener has moved ahead of Allen in Mayock's new rankings after he initially had Allen ahead of fleener 2 weeks ago[/quote]

            Wait for the Combine.[/quote]Im not a fan of the combine, I feel that it somewhat overshadows the actual in-game performance and to me Id rather judge actual gameplay
            [/quote]

            I totally agree.

            That doesn't change the fact that the draft boards and all the mock drafts will change considerably after the Combine.[/quote]

            Game tape is king. But when you have 2 guys, Like Fleener and Allen who are so close in prospect every little thing matters.

            But, the posters here and fans in general think its the 40 time, or Bench Press or whatever that matter, that just isnt true. that stuff is like 80% fluff 20% important. What matters most about the combine are the drills, the doctor examinations and above all else, the interviews. All the things we cant see.

            Being an NFL player is a full time job more than ever now. The days of Joe Namath offseason of boozing and partying are over. The combine helps find those guys who perhaps dont take the offseason seriously and therefor maybe dont deserve top dollar. It also helps find the guys harboring secret injuries, like Da'Quan Bowers who prior to the combine some had as a posible 1st overal selection. He ended up being picked 51st because of the knee concerns 1st raised by his decision to only lift at the combine and his examinations.

            I have always said that players who skip the combine in favor of pro day only workouts(for poor reasons, cant blame a guy for an injury) often cost themselves big. Ive been told more than a few times that scouts take pro days with a grain of salt. Its gotten better in recent years, but as long as school who have a vested interest in where the player gets drafted have a say in setting up the pro day workouts, then you have to question them. As we have seen throughout the years at the combine and senior bowls, these school lie about size/weight in media guides and work habits, so why trust their pro day setups? I could give some examples of situations where schools have been questioned about the pro day setups in the past for notable athletes. There is a reason scouts have asked schools for more control in how things are set up. The combine removes the question mark completely because it is a level playing field for all.
            [/quote]

            I agree with everything you posted but a flashy 40 time at the Combine still changes everything come draft day (for the speed positions anyway).

            Just ask Taylor Mays.[/quote]

            But doesnt that kinda prove what I say? Didnt his 40 time end up being "fluff'?" or has he lived up to it?

            I do agree that exceptional athletic ability or speed can make a difference. But, most of the time, guys who run a crazy 40 but dont have tape to back it up(kinda like Mays) end up being only as good as their tape said they would(kinda like mays.)
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

              [quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Kase-1"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Neverend"]Interesting, Fleener has moved ahead of Allen in Mayock's new rankings after he initially had Allen ahead of fleener 2 weeks ago[/quote]

              Wait for the Combine.[/quote]Im not a fan of the combine, I feel that it somewhat overshadows the actual in-game performance and to me Id rather judge actual gameplay
              [/quote]

              I totally agree.

              That doesn't change the fact that the draft boards and all the mock drafts will change considerably after the Combine.[/quote]

              Game tape is king. But when you have 2 guys, Like Fleener and Allen who are so close in prospect every little thing matters.

              But, the posters here and fans in general think its the 40 time, or Bench Press or whatever that matter, that just isnt true. that stuff is like 80% fluff 20% important.* What matters most about the combine are the drills, the doctor examinations and above all else, the interviews. All the things we cant see.

              Being an NFL player is a full time job more than ever now.* The days of Joe Namath offseason of boozing and partying are over.* The combine helps find those guys who perhaps dont take the offseason seriously and therefor maybe dont deserve top dollar. It also helps find the guys harboring secret injuries, like Da'Quan Bowers who prior to the combine some had as a posible 1st overal selection. He ended up being picked 51st because of the knee concerns 1st raised by his decision to only lift at the combine and his examinations.

              I have always said that players who skip the combine in favor of pro day only workouts(for poor reasons, cant blame a guy for an injury) often cost themselves big. Ive been told more than a few times that scouts take pro days with a grain of salt. Its gotten better in recent years, but as long as school who have a vested interest in where the player gets drafted have a say in setting up the pro day workouts, then you have to question them. As we have seen throughout the years at the combine and senior bowls, these school lie about size/weight in media guides and work habits, so why trust their pro day setups? I could give some examples of situations where schools have been questioned about the pro day setups in the past for notable athletes. There is a reason scouts have asked schools for more control in how things are set up. The combine removes the question mark completely because it is a level playing field for all.
              [/quote]

              I agree with everything you posted but a flashy 40 time at the Combine still changes everything come draft day (for the speed positions anyway).

              Just ask Taylor Mays.[/quote]

              But doesnt that kinda prove what I say? Didnt his 40 time end up being "fluff'?" or has he lived up to it?

              I do agree that exceptional athletic ability* or speed can make a difference. But, most of the time, guys who run a crazy 40 but dont have tape to back it up(kinda like Mays) end up being only as good as their tape said they would(kinda like mays.)
              [/quote]

              Yeah I'm agreeing with you.

              I'm just commenting on how a fast 40 (or other measurable) can get people (including draft people) all excited over prospects that aren't all that exciting.

              The better personel departments don't bite and the worse ones do.

              Speaking of which, Mays was a second round pick by the 49ers but considered a flash in the pan when he ran an unofficial 4.31 40 (later timed at a 4.43). He had very poor metrics in the Combine (shuttle, back pedal, etc ...) and his knock was that he was poor in coverage. Had he not flashed a fast 40, chances are he was a 4th round or later pick.

              Interesting addendum ... he was a Mike Singletary pick last year which the San Fran front office didn't want. After the lock out, they jettisoned Mays (who actually had a promising first year with the 49ers in 2010) to the Bengals for an "undisclosed" pick (usually means a late rounder).
              I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

                Mays was projected as a borderline 1st rounder before the combine.

                And he ran sub 4.3 at the combine. The official time guy was awful that combine.

                In any case, nothing he did or didnt do at the combine really surprised teams. He had incredibly stiff hips and had trouble changing directions. He is a decent deep safety as long as he doesnt have to plant and turn, but try to play him in the box, or have him cover anyone and he has major issues.


                40 times arent overrated, it just depends what you use them for. Guys who are football field fast run fast 40s. The more questionable is the guys who play slower on the field than their 40. Then its usually an issue of guys not being able to translate their 40 times into lateral speed.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

                  Mayock has got UGA TE Orson Charles as his top rated TE for his pre-combine position rankings

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

                    Tight End

                    1. Orson Charles, Georgia
                    2. Coby Fleener, Stanford
                    3. Dwayne Allen, Clemson
                    4. Deangelo Peterson, LSU
                    5. Ladarius Green, Louisiana-Lafayette

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

                      I like Orson Charles,=.. but I think he's another Beckum, H-back type of TE. He's got amazing quickness and real nice length. Should be a very good up the seam seam type of TE but I'd take Allen over him

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                      • #41
                        Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

                        blocking is not a concern for for either of these guys imo...if the giants are going to take a TE in the first it will be one who can make plays, blocking will not be a deal breaker when it comes to a 1st round pick imo.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

                          was an allen guy at first but the more I see of fleener I can see him making plays in the middle for us..with who we have on the outside It would be nice to have somone of fleener's skill set on the field...look at what ballard did for us and he is nowhere near the skill level of Fleener or allen for that matter.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

                            i think fleener can still add bulk without loosing speed. he is a solid blocker i like him over allen.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

                              I think Fleener wins

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