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  • #16
    Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
    Seems like he should have more tackles than everyone else than (instead of the opposite). Especially more than a guy with 3 less games and is the worst against the run.
    Production doesn't have a lot to do with it. Ogletree massively benefitted from the massive DTs who played in front of him and kept him clean on nearly all plays.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
      Production doesn't have a lot to do with it. Ogletree massively benefitted from the massive DTs who played in front of him and kept him clean on nearly all plays.
      If he only made plays up front, I'd be closer to agreeing with you. As someone that has actually watched him play A LOT, I know he was impressive for many other reason besides not having people block him.

      Have you watched Arthur Brown's film? It's not exactly loaded with him shedding blocks and shutting down run games. Let's not forget that he couldn't even get on the field at Miami.
      Last edited by BlueSabbath; 01-23-2013, 12:36 PM.
      2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

      Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
      Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
      Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
      Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
      Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
      Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
      Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
        If he only made plays up front, I'd be closer to agreeing with you. As someone that has actually watched him play A LOT, I know he was impressive for many other reason besides not having people block him.

        Have you watched Arthur Brown's film? It's not exactly loaded with him shedding blocks and shutting down run games.
        I've watched plenty of both. Ogletree does not use his arms and does not stack and shed. Watch how he plays with his arms at his sides all game until the tackle.

        Arthur Brown there is a ton of video of him engaging and shedding blockers.

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        • #19
          The more I think about I'm going to switch my first and third picks

          I'll take Mingo in the first and Wreh Wilson in the third.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
            The more I think about I'm going to switch my first and third picks

            I'll take Mingo in the first and Wreh Wilson in the third.
            I think Mingo has been a top 10 pick in every mock draft I have seen.
            2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

            Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
            Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
            Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
            Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
            Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
            Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
            Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
              I think Mingo has been a top 10 pick in every mock draft I have seen.
              I think it's very possible he falls. Because he is undersized and not very productive.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                I think it's very possible he falls. Because he is undersized and not very productive.
                I tend to agree.
                2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

                Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
                Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
                Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
                Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
                Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
                Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
                Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                  I'm struggling more and more with the first round. Rhodes is a good player, but this draft is deep at CB and I would argue mid round guys are potentially as good as Rhodes. Wreh-Wilson to me is as good of a prospect.

                  I am still not sure if ansah would ever be a top pass rusher. He never dips around the corner. Not sure he has the flexibility to do it.

                  I don't see ogletree as a top player because he's the worst LB against the run in the first couple rounds

                  So where do they go? The other DE prospects? Maybe Mingo is there.


                  As far as one dimensional player like Lemonier. A pass rush specialist is such a valuable commodity. Look at the year Aldon Smith had his rookie year or Bruce Irvin this year.

                  And Sio Moore is a much better player than herzlich or Paysinger. He could certainly play significant snaps on defense.
                  The first round likes that I have are (in order): Okafor, Ansah, Rhodes, Lane Johnson, Ogletree

                  Ansah (and Okafor) I see more as strong side DEs (replacing Tuck). Setting the edge and getting pursuit sacks. I think they're both great pass rushing prospects, but I agree that neither would probably make GREAT pass rushers. But I don't need them to be the next Strahan ... just the next Tuck.

                  I think of those, one would be available, and I'd be happy with any of those in the first. They all address a real need in a big way for us. I agree about your assessment of Rhodes vs. later CBs in the draft. As for Ogletree, while I agree with you, I think he's the multidimensional type of LB we really need and our dline has to do more with respect to being stout against the run. That and the run stuffers that will be around in the first round just don't impress me (Minter and Teo). But I can understand the misgivings here.

                  Lemonier: I don't see him being as good as Osi (or Smith or Irvin). The only way I say grab a situational player is if he blows my hair back at what he does (and Lemonier, while good, doesn't do it for me).

                  Moore: Herzlich has yet to prove that he can play at this level (or get up to the level he played at BC for that matter) so that's a no-brainer. Paysinger I'll disagree with ... I thought he's been coming along really nicely. While Moore might supplant him, I don't think you can say that with a given (at least I didn't bet that impression from him on the little tape I've watched).
                  Last edited by Kruunch; 01-23-2013, 03:30 PM.
                  I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                    I think it's very possible he falls. Because he is undersized and not very productive.
                    I think it's more likely he'll get scooped up as a 3-4 OLB before us.
                    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
                      I think it's more likely he'll get scooped up as a 3-4 OLB before us.
                      Is he a legit DE prospect?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jahh View Post
                        Is he a legit DE prospect?
                        Mingo? He's being touted as that but he doesn't have the size and an extra 30 pounds might slow him down too much. Then again, pass rushing DEs are getting smaller all the time. He's good really solid technique though and he's an athletic marvel.

                        Because of his range though, I'd see him as more valuable as a 3-4 OLB who can flare out on zone dog blitzes.
                        I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                          I think it's very possible he falls. Because he is undersized and not very productive.
                          Undersized and unproductive? Let's grab this guy!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                            I'm struggling more and more with the first round. Rhodes is a good player, but this draft is deep at CB and I would argue mid round guys are potentially as good as Rhodes. Wreh-Wilson to me is as good of a prospect.

                            I am still not sure if ansah would ever be a top pass rusher. He never dips around the corner. Not sure he has the flexibility to do it.

                            I don't see ogletree as a top player because he's the worst LB against the run in the first couple rounds

                            So where do they go? The other DE prospects? Maybe Mingo is there.


                            As far as one dimensional player like Lemonier. A pass rush specialist is such a valuable commodity. Look at the year Aldon Smith had his rookie year or Bruce Irvin this year.

                            And Sio Moore is a much better player than herzlich or Paysinger. He could certainly play significant snaps on defense.
                            I firmly believe if Mingo / Rhodes / Ansah / ogletree is there. Mingo is the player with the best upside/ polish. I say this cause Anash is player with the most Upside but he is probably going to be a 2nd season performer much like JPP was and I hope he doesn't hit the wall like JPP did when realizing "hey they are game planing to neturalize me." Rhodes at 19 is nice but like you said we can get better prospects in the 2nd, In my mock I took him where he would be the best value. "I don't see ogletree as a top player because he's the worst LB against the run in the first couple rounds." I completely agree with this, Nico to me is a better overall prospect not talent but where we can get him a better value I think.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
                              Mingo? He's being touted as that but he doesn't have the size and an extra 30 pounds might slow him down too much. Then again, pass rushing DEs are getting smaller all the time. He's good really solid technique though and he's an athletic marvel.

                              Because of his range though, I'd see him as more valuable as a 3-4 OLB who can flare out on zone dog blitzes.
                              he doesn't need 30 all he needs is 20 imho. and he uses his hands extremely well, and has an array of moves to get to the QB. like you said he is extremely atheletic so i don't think he would have an issue dissengaging and getting to the running back.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
                                he doesn't need 30 all he needs is 20 imho. and he uses his hands extremely well, and has an array of moves to get to the QB. like you said he is extremely atheletic so i don't think he would have an issue dissengaging and getting to the running back.

                                Yeah I could see that. My only concern with tweeners is more of them turn out to be busts or 3-4 OLBs than the Jevon Kearse's of the world (Mingo kind of reminds me of a Jevon Kearse type prospect).
                                I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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