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Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

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  • #46
    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

    [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="flamethrower"]Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
    Drew Breez is #1
    Aaron Rodgers is #2
    Eli Manning is #3
    Tom Brady is #4
    Roethlisberger is #5
    Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
    Matt Stafford is #7
    Then you have a Huuuge drop off.
    [/quote]

    I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
    [/quote]Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.
    1970's tv is better than today's tv.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

      [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="krygny"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

      [quote user="Slunk3AM"]My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)[/quote]</p>


      lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>[/quote]
      Really, ... Romo is a mediocre QB, at best. A mediocre QB in an age of elites. How many years has that offense been stacked with talent and he's done nothing with it? Nothing!! Romo is not a winner. I'd take Mark Sanchez before I'd take Romo. Sanchez may not be a winner either but I don't know that yet. I do know it about Romo.

      Romo is a loser. LEH-HOO ... ZEH-HUR!! LOSER!!
      [quote user="Slunk3AM"]...



      Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments.

      ...[/quote]
      <font color="#FF0000">Oh, okay then. We'll just pretend that never happens.</font>

      [/quote]

      I think age of Elites is incorrect. I think "golden age of hyperbole and high media coverage" would be a more apt description of the leauge today.

      Imean, the Elite include Brady, Brees, Rodgers, maybe Peyton if he returns to form, and tentatively Eli, depending on who you ask. That's 5 guys. Of course, careers aren't over yet so it's hard to say exactly how many elite QBs there are in the league today, but as it stands there are 4 or 5 guys that are viewed as elite.

      Compare that to years from the past... let's go with early 1994. Marino, Elway, Young, Aikman, Moon, Favre, Kelly, and Montana (albeit his later years, he still finished top 10 in most leaderboards). That's 7 elite hall of famers and one elite soon to be hall of famer.

      Looking at today's quarterbacks with an honest assessment, how many quarterbacks can you really place in front of Romo that aren't elite? 2 or 3 at best (Berger, Rivers... and who else?)

      Romo is probably the 8th best QB in the league. I can't really put him any higher, can't see him any lower since the criteria for Romo not being higher is 'he hasn't proven anything'. None of the other guys behind him have either (Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, etc...).



      [/quote]

      I can agree with this for the most part, he isn't bad necessarily he just isn't in the Elite. But what has really happened is all the media coverage he used to garner when you guys were making the playoffs and he was boy wonder is coming back to bite him on the ***. Now all the media heads that bumped him up so much are dragging him down because he didn't live up to expectations and win you guys a couple SB already. So it is a little ridiculous because as much as we like to think winning is everything, and it usually does solve most problems, there are many great QB's with no championships who are still great not everybody meets the right circumstances and gets to go win championships. I think the question would be if he was in Roethlisberger's shoes would he have won as much? Or viceversa would the Cowboys be a better team or be more productive in the post season with a different QB?

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

        [quote user="SweetZombieJesus"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]
        However, your statement describes the Jets game and Lions game to a tee. Other than that he had 4 gw drives this year, and had 2 more that special teams just didn't capitalize-- meaning he did his part in just as many 4th quarter performances in the regular season as Eli. Now I'm not comparing Romo to Eli in that respect-- I'm just pointing out that the biggest reason Romo seems like a choker is because the only time Romo is really put in the spotlight is when he fails. When he performs to the contraire of popular belief, it's not covered by the media nearly as extensively. [/quote]

        I know you said you're not trying to compare the two, but Eli had 5 comebacks (plus two more in the NFC CG and SB) and set the NFL record for 4th quarter TDs.

        The problem with Romo is when he has the boneheaded play (such as at the end of a playoff game with the ball in his hands). And that when he gets his chance on stage, such as against the Giants for the division title, he shrivels. Can you tell me when he has risen to the occasion when the stakes are high? When does he deliver?
        [/quote]

        When the stakes are high? Well the stakes haven't really been high lately, as this marks the second year in a row that we've missed the playoffs. But in clutch situations he's improved. I would say the biggest example of that would have been against SF early in the season.

        Yeah, my intent wasn't to compare him to Eli (I thought Eli had 6 game winning drives last season). But rather to point out that Romo is capable of performing well in clutch situations, and is comparable to the other QBs in his respective tier.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

          [quote user="JPP"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="krygny"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

          [quote user="Slunk3AM"]My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)[/quote]</p>


          lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>[/quote]
          Really, ... Romo is a mediocre QB, at best. A mediocre QB in an age of elites. How many years has that offense been stacked with talent and he's done nothing with it? Nothing!! Romo is not a winner. I'd take Mark Sanchez before I'd take Romo. Sanchez may not be a winner either but I don't know that yet. I do know it about Romo.

          Romo is a loser. LEH-HOO ... ZEH-HUR!! LOSER!!
          [quote user="Slunk3AM"]...



          Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments.

          ...[/quote]
          <font color="#ff0000">Oh, okay then. We'll just pretend that never happens.</font>

          [/quote]

          I think age of Elites is incorrect. I think "golden age of hyperbole and high media coverage" would be a more apt description of the leauge today.

          Imean, the Elite include Brady, Brees, Rodgers, maybe Peyton if he returns to form, and tentatively Eli, depending on who you ask. That's 5 guys. Of course, careers aren't over yet so it's hard to say exactly how many elite QBs there are in the league today, but as it stands there are 4 or 5 guys that are viewed as elite.

          Compare that to years from the past... let's go with early 1994. Marino, Elway, Young, Aikman, Moon, Favre, Kelly, and Montana (albeit his later years, he still finished top 10 in most leaderboards). That's 7 elite hall of famers and one elite soon to be hall of famer.

          Looking at today's quarterbacks with an honest assessment, how many quarterbacks can you really place in front of Romo that aren't elite? 2 or 3 at best (Berger, Rivers... and who else?)

          Romo is probably the 8th best QB in the league. I can't really put him any higher, can't see him any lower since the criteria for Romo not being higher is 'he hasn't proven anything'. None of the other guys behind him have either (Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, etc...).



          [/quote]

          I can agree with this for the most part, he isn't bad necessarily he just isn't in the Elite. But what has really happened is all the media coverage he used to garner when you guys were making the playoffs and he was boy wonder is coming back to bite him on the ***. Now all the media heads that bumped him up so much are dragging him down because he didn't live up to expectations and win you guys a couple SB already. So it is a little ridiculous because as much as we like to think winning is everything, and it usually does solve most problems, there are many great QB's with no championships who are still great not everybody meets the right circumstances and gets to go win championships. I think the question would be if he was in Roethlisberger's shoes would he have won as much? Or viceversa would the Cowboys be a better team or be more productive in the post season with a different QB?[/quote]

          I think Romo would have been able to help the Steelers win just as many superbowls as berger, but maybe not the same years.

          On the flip side, I don't think Roethlissberger could have won anything here. The Cowboys have lacked a championship caliber defense since they were winning championships. Romo has been a problem in a few past years, but our defense has never been good enough to hold a true playoff contender in check.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

            [quote user="flamethrower"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="flamethrower"]Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
            Drew Breez is #1
            Aaron Rodgers is #2
            Eli Manning is #3
            Tom Brady is #4
            Roethlisberger is #5
            Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
            Matt Stafford is #7
            Then you have a Huuuge drop off.
            [/quote]

            I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
            [/quote]Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.
            [/quote]

            Disregarding Manning, what about Rivers, Romo, or maybe even Stafford? They rank below Schaub?

            I only ask because Schaub's numbers just don't stack up to the first two guys, and he hasn't really proven anything either (something Romo is frequently criticized for).

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

              Absolutely is an elite QB. Wouldn't take him over Eli but he is still one of the best in the game today.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

                [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="flamethrower"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="flamethrower"]Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
                Drew Breez is #1
                Aaron Rodgers is #2
                Eli Manning is #3
                Tom Brady is #4
                Roethlisberger is #5
                Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
                Matt Stafford is #7
                Then you have a Huuuge drop off.
                [/quote]

                I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
                [/quote]Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.
                [/quote]

                Disregarding Manning, what about Rivers, Romo, or maybe even Stafford? They rank below Schaub?

                I only ask because Schaub's numbers just don't stack up to the first two guys, and he hasn't really proven anything either (something Romo is frequently criticized for).
                [/quote]Rivers did almost nothing when he had a great team. If the Giants had not made that trade they would not have won either Super Bowl that they won with Manning. Romo, geeze in December, and January when it really matters I can use 1 word that means Choke, Fail, and Drop the Ball. That word is Romoing.
                1970's tv is better than today's tv.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

                  [quote user="Martyr"]

                  He's elite at dragging drunk college students in the the bathroom. Thats about it....</p>[/quote]LMAO !!!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

                    [quote user="Ntegrase96"]
                    In that regard, would you commend Eli for putting up big numbers against the New Orleans defense that gave up after the game was secured?
                    [/quote]

                    In the sense that I don't have a problem with an offense trying to catch up some so it doesn't look completely God-awful? No that doesn't bother me, but I didn't see anyone bragging about Eli in that game anyways. The biggest compliment I saw from Eli on that game was that he and Cruz hadn't "given up" like our defense had.

                    Nevertheless, I still don't have much respect for a coach or a team that doesn't call of the dogs sometime. Yeah I know the excuse "its the game", yeah I played it too, and there is nothing better then rubbing the cross town teams face in your awesomeness. It still doesn't impress me though. Sorry. Watching someone continue to kick a dead horse doesn't excite me, and our D was definitely dead that night.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

                      [quote user="Ntegrase96"]
                      When the stakes are high? Well the stakes haven't really been high lately, as this marks the second year in a row that we've missed the playoffs. But in clutch situations he's improved. I would say the biggest example of that would have been against SF early in the season.

                      Yeah, my intent wasn't to compare him to Eli (I thought Eli had 6 game winning drives last season). But rather to point out that Romo is capable of performing well in clutch situations, and is comparable to the other QBs in his respective tier.
                      [/quote]

                      6 game winning drives, 5 of them 4th quarter comebacks (plus two more in the playoffs). Link. In the Buffalo game they were tied 24-24 in the 4th.

                      And last year's week 17 matchup was a high stakes game for Romo -- for the division and a playoff spot.
                      8-Time NFL Champions - 1927 1934 1938 1956 1986 1990 2007 2011

                      "You win close games because you're prepared to do it. It doesn't just come down to luck." -- Bill Parcells

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

                        [quote user="SweetZombieJesus"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]
                        When the stakes are high? Well the stakes haven't really been high lately, as this marks the second year in a row that we've missed the playoffs. But in clutch situations he's improved. I would say the biggest example of that would have been against SF early in the season.

                        Yeah, my intent wasn't to compare him to Eli (I thought Eli had 6 game winning drives last season). But rather to point out that Romo is capable of performing well in clutch situations, and is comparable to the other QBs in his respective tier.
                        [/quote]

                        6 game winning drives, 5 of them 4th quarter comebacks (plus two more in the playoffs). Link. In the Buffalo game they were tied 24-24 in the 4th.

                        And last year's week 17 matchup was a high stakes game for Romo -- for the division and a playoff spot.
                        [/quote]

                        And he had a pretty good game don't you think? Considering he was under heavy pressure from a surging Giants defense-- he was sacked 6 times that game. I thought he played pretty well, completing 78 percent of his passes. Did he win the game? No. But he definitely wasn't the reason we lost.

                        The Cowboys lost the last game of the season because our defense couldn't stop the Giants offense, nor capitalize on three of their huge mistakes.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

                          [quote user="flamethrower"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="flamethrower"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="flamethrower"]Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
                          Drew Breez is #1
                          Aaron Rodgers is #2
                          Eli Manning is #3
                          Tom Brady is #4
                          Roethlisberger is #5
                          Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
                          Matt Stafford is #7
                          Then you have a Huuuge drop off.
                          [/quote]

                          I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
                          [/quote]Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.
                          [/quote]

                          Disregarding Manning, what about Rivers, Romo, or maybe even Stafford? They rank below Schaub?

                          I only ask because Schaub's numbers just don't stack up to the first two guys, and he hasn't really proven anything either (something Romo is frequently criticized for).
                          [/quote]Rivers did almost nothing when he had a great team. If the Giants had not made that trade they would not have won either Super Bowl that they won with Manning. Romo, geeze in December, and January when it really matters I can use 1 word that means Choke, Fail, and Drop the Ball. That word is Romoing.
                          [/quote]

                          And Schaub has had a great offense for the past few years and has accomplished even less than both of those guys-- which is saying a lot since Romo hasn't accomplished much. So far Schaub has had one good year.

                          And just a tidbit for you. Romo's last two active December-season finale stats:

                          Romo: 70% completion ratio, 2,708 yards, 19 touchdowns, 3 ints (109.9 Passer rating)


                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

                            I don't ever get caught up in the whole, 'QB rankings thing' but I'd still like to add my 2 cents on Romo.

                            There is one quality that has always bugged me about him. He wants to be a star, the center of attention and he doesn't hate losing as much as he enjoys winning.

                            Let me try to explain that last part. If Eli, Rogers, Aikmen, Marino, Elway, Peyton, Young, Stabauch, etc miss a very important pass, they don't go to the sidelines smiling.

                            You go back and watch the 2007 NFC divisional round and there were times when Romo missed passes and he is laughing, smiling even. Like, 'Hey, it's no big deal." He also was smiling when he must missed Miles Austin on the now famous, "caught in the lights 3rd down pass play' that could have ended the Giant's season. Romo loves winning but he doesn't hate losing.

                            Eli and the rest of the QB's I mentioned hate losing. HATE IT. You want to be successful in the NFL you have to hate losing.


                            Scoops


                            My 2 cents anyway.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

                              [quote user="flamethrower"]Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
                              Drew Breez is #1
                              Aaron Rodgers is #2
                              Eli Manning is #3
                              Tom Brady is #4
                              Roethlisberger is #5
                              Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
                              Matt Stafford is #7
                              Then you have a Huuuge drop off.
                              [/quote]


                              Perhaps we can draw from this that there are only about 6 Elite QBs in the league, as those 6 seem to be the only ones with rings. The rest make any top 10 list, but have not proven to be able to take their team over the hump as of yet. I don't know why Peyton Manning would not be on that list.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

                                [quote user="Bohemian"][quote user="flamethrower"]Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
                                Drew Breez is #1
                                Aaron Rodgers is #2
                                Eli Manning is #3
                                Tom Brady is #4
                                Roethlisberger is #5
                                Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
                                Matt Stafford is #7
                                Then you have a Huuuge drop off.
                                [/quote]


                                Perhaps we can draw from this that there are only about 6 Elite QBs in the league, as those 6 seem to be the only ones with rings. The rest make any top 10 list, but have not proven to be able to take their team over the hump as of yet. I don't know why Peyton Manning would not be on that list.
                                [/quote]If Peyton Manning returns to form. I put him at #3, and drop everyone down 1 spot.
                                Speaking as someone who has has a neck fusion surgery. The same exact kind that Payton Manning has had. I don't think he will be back to that form. I have already stated that if I turn out to be wrong. I will happily eat crow on this. And as far as Schaubb being on my list. Well on that 1 I admit to being a little bit biased. If I was trolling I would have put him <font size="6">Much <font size="3">Higher on it. </font></font>
                                1970's tv is better than today's tv.

                                Comment

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