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  • Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
    I don't see how that belittles the AFL. Like you said. The AFL and NFL combined to create the NFL we know now. It's not the same NFL so that's why I feel the SBs shouldn't be combined with old championships cause the SBs involve more and more is at stake. Your not just playing for one league. Your playing for all the relevant leagues.
    I'm not belittling the NFL. I'm just saying the merger was a business decision.
    The AFL really never existed as a real football competitor of the NFL before the first SB. They were really not as good as the NFL until the actual merger in 1970.
    Top to bottom, they were inferior to the NFL.
    My point is that the NFL championship before the suberbowl was the championship of the best teams and players in the world. The Superbowl started before the AFL was really anywhere near as good as the NFL.
    In other words, there was never any "sub championship" or anything close to it before the SB era. The NFL chamionship was the true championship of pro football.
    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
      I'm not belittling the NFL. I'm just saying the merger was a business decision.The AFL really never existed as a real football competitor of the NFL before the first SB. They were really not as good as the NFL until the actual merger in 1970.Top to bottom, they were inferior to the NFL.My point is that the NFL championship before the suberbowl was the championship of the best teams and players in the world. The Superbowl started before the AFL was really anywhere near as good as the NFL.In other words, there was never any "sub championship" or anything close to it before the SB era. The NFL chamionship was the true championship of pro football.
      And that's where we disagree. I feel the AFL was equal. It just didn't get as much coverage( probably cause the NFL came first). Point is Otto Graham and Paul Brown were in the AAFC and Paul Brown isn't praised just for 3 NFL championships. Paul Brown and the Browns( an AAFC team) come to the NFL and suddenly the browns( an AAFC team) comes to the NFL and starts killing all the supposedly superior NFL teams.

      The browns won almost as many as they did in the AAFC so whose to say the AAFC was less talented then the NFL if most both did pretty much equal to the browns. The AFL didn't get good until SB 3 but that was only 2 years. Whose to say that had the merge come sooner that the AFL wouldn't have won then. The only proof that the NFL was more talented than the AFL was the first 2 SBs. But what happened after that? The AFL starts killing the NFL. Whose to say that had the SB come earlier the AFL wouldn't have dominated then? We only know how good the NFL talent based on how good they were against OTHER NFL players. Not AFL.

      Also the browns themselves acknowledges the AAFC rings and the NFL answers to the owners. That sounds like the NFL acknowledging the AFL as equal.

      Wikipedia and the history books disagree. They point out that the AFL was a real true competitor.
      And personally I feel the NFL could have made different business decisions than merging if all it was was a business decisions.

      I guess we can agree to disagree.
      Last edited by GentleGiant; 04-23-2013, 04:22 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
        The AFL didn't get good until SB 3 but that was only 2 years. Whose to say that had the merge come sooner that the AFL wouldn't have won then. The only proof that the NFL was more talented than the AFL was the first 2 SBs. But what happened after that? The AFL starts killing the NFL. Whose to say that had the SB come earlier the AFL wouldn't have dominated then? We only know how good the NFL talent based on how good they were against OTHER NFL players. Not AFL.
        The only true AFC/AFL teams that would be dominant were the Dolphins for 2 years, and the Raiders later in the 1970s. 5 of those AFC/AFL Super Bowls were won by former NFL teams that moved to the AFC (Colts & Steelers).

        SB 5 - Won by Colts as an AFC team when they were the NFL representative in SB 3 who lost to the Jets.
        SB 9, 10, 13, 14 -- Won by Steelers as an AFC team when they were an NFL team moved to the AFC.


        In the first 20 Super Bowls, only 6 were won by actual AFL teams that originated in the junior league (Jets, Chiefs, Dolphins x2, Raiders x2). 5 were won by former NFL teams that moved to the AFC.

        That speaks to which was the stronger league.
        Last edited by SweetZombieJesus; 04-23-2013, 04:31 PM.
        8-Time NFL Champions - 1927 1934 1938 1956 1986 1990 2007 2011

        "You win close games because you're prepared to do it. It doesn't just come down to luck." -- Bill Parcells

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
          I'm not belittling the NFL. I'm just saying the merger was a business decision.The AFL really never existed as a real football competitor of the NFL before the first SB. They were really not as good as the NFL until the actual merger in 1970.Top to bottom, they were inferior to the NFL.My point is that the NFL championship before the suberbowl was the championship of the best teams and players in the world. The Superbowl started before the AFL was really anywhere near as good as the NFL.In other words, there was never any "sub championship" or anything close to it before the SB era. The NFL chamionship was the true championship of pro football.
          Originally posted by SweetZombieJesus View Post
          SB 3 - Jets were a flukeSB 5 - Won by Colts as an AFC team when they were the NFL representative in SB 3SB 9, 10, 13, 14 -- Won by Steelers as an AFC team when they were an NFL team moved to the AFC.The only true AFC/AFL teams that would be dominant were the Dolphins for 2 years, and the Raiders later in the 1970s. 5 of those AFC/AFL Super Bowls were won by former NFL teams that moved to the AFC.In the first 20 Super Bowls, only 6 were won by actual AFL teams (Jets, Chiefs, Dolphins x2, Raiders x2).
          The steelers and jets and colts still had to go through the raiders and dolphins. Not to mention that they still faced the NFLs best. More ignorance. Every team you dont like wins the SB is a fluke

          Comment


          • Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
            The steelers and jets and colts still had to go through the raiders and dolphins. Not to mention that they still faced the NFLs best. More ignorance. Every team you dont like wins the SB is a fluke
            You want to argue the Jets were not a fluke?

            They returned to the playoffs the following year, 1969, and then fell off the face of the Earth. They wouldn't have another winning season until 1981. Their "window" was 3 years and then it slammed shut. In fact those 3 years were the only time they'd be better than .500 for their first 20 years 1960-1980.

            Nope, no evidence they were a fluke at all.
            Last edited by SweetZombieJesus; 04-23-2013, 04:38 PM.
            8-Time NFL Champions - 1927 1934 1938 1956 1986 1990 2007 2011

            "You win close games because you're prepared to do it. It doesn't just come down to luck." -- Bill Parcells

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
              I'm not belittling the NFL. I'm just saying the merger was a business decision.The AFL really never existed as a real football competitor of the NFL before the first SB. They were really not as good as the NFL until the actual merger in 1970.Top to bottom, they were inferior to the NFL.My point is that the NFL championship before the suberbowl was the championship of the best teams and players in the world. The Superbowl started before the AFL was really anywhere near as good as the NFL.In other words, there was never any "sub championship" or anything close to it before the SB era. The NFL chamionship was the true championship of pro football.
              Originally posted by SweetZombieJesus View Post
              You want to argue the Jets were not a fluke?They returned to the playoffs the following year, 1969, and then fell off the face of the Earth. They wouldn't have another winning season until 1981. Their "window" was 3 years and then it slammed shut. In fact those 3 years were the only time they'd be better than .500 for their first 20 years 1960-1980.Nope, no evidence they were a fluke at all.
              There's no such thing as a fluke. They won it all . What they did after is irrelevant. They beat the supposedly better NFL team. The steelers beat the supposedly better NFL 4 times( despite you saying theyre bad).MS even said that he felt the AFL didn't get good until the 70s so he likely disagrees with you( although I feel the AFL was always as good). You can't find a point so you just try to dumb down every AFL team. Quit it. Don't accuse me of making excuses then go off and make an excuse for every AFC SB win. The niners have 5 but they were AAFC first. I guess all five of those were flukes too?

              Just 1 AFL SB win proves my point.

              Just admit that you're NFC bias. Tell me that Im wrong for saying the old championships don't compare but then tell me which AFL SBs were legit based off your own stupid biased opinion? Pathetic.
              Last edited by GentleGiant; 04-23-2013, 05:06 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                And that's where we disagree. I feel the AFL was equal. It just didn't get as much coverage( probably cause the NFL came first). Point is Otto Graham and Paul Brown were in the AAFC and Paul Brown isn't praised just for 3 NFL championships. Paul Brown and the Browns( an AAFC team) come to the NFL and suddenly the browns( an AAFC team) comes to the NFL and starts killing all the supposedly superior NFL teams.

                The browns won almost as many as they did in the AAFC so whose to say the AAFC was less talented then the NFL if most both did pretty much equal to the browns. The AFL didn't get good until SB 3 but that was only 2 years. Whose to say that had the merge come sooner that the AFL wouldn't have won then. The only proof that the NFL was more talented than the AFL was the first 2 SBs. But what happened after that? The AFL starts killing the NFL. Whose to say that had the SB come earlier the AFL wouldn't have dominated then? We only know how good the NFL talent based on how good they were against OTHER NFL players. Not AFL.

                Also the browns themselves acknowledges the AAFC rings and the NFL answers to the owners. That sounds like the NFL acknowledging the AFL as equal.

                Wikipedia and the history books disagree. They point out that the AFL was a real true competitor.
                And personally I feel the NFL could have made different business decisions than merging if all it was was a business decisions.

                I guess we can agree to disagree.
                Well I agree that the AFL was equal at the top. Just not throughout the league. But they didn't come even close to that equality until the SB's had already started. Before the SB, the AFL was a far inferior league.
                So before the SB, the NFL championship went to the best team in pro football.
                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                  There's no such thing as a fluke. They won it all . What they did after is irrelevant. They beat the supposedly better NFL team. The steelers beat the supposedly better NFL 4 times( despite you saying theyre bad).MS even said that he felt the AFL didn't get good until the 70s so he likely disagrees with you( although I feel the AFL was always as good). You can't find a point so you just try to dumb down every AFL team. Quit it. Don't accuse me of making excuses then go off and make an excuse for every AFC SB win. The niners have 5 but they were AAFC first. I guess all five of those were flukes too?

                  Just 1 AFL SB win proves my point.

                  Just admit that you're NFC bias. Tell me that Im wrong for saying the old championships don't compare but then tell me which AFL SBs were legit based off your own stupid biased opinion? Pathetic.
                  The Steelers were an old NFL team. they were never an AFL team.

                  AND to suggest that the Niners, 30 years after being in the NFL, by winning 5 SB's is somehow an indicator that the old AAC was a valid league is nonsense on steroids.
                  Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                    I'm not belittling the NFL. I'm just saying the merger was a business decision.The AFL really never existed as a real football competitor of the NFL before the first SB. They were really not as good as the NFL until the actual merger in 1970.Top to bottom, they were inferior to the NFL.My point is that the NFL championship before the suberbowl was the championship of the best teams and players in the world. The Superbowl started before the AFL was really anywhere near as good as the NFL.In other words, there was never any "sub championship" or anything close to it before the SB era. The NFL chamionship was the true championship of pro football.
                    Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                    Well I agree that the AFL was equal at the top. Just not throughout the league. But they didn't come even close to that equality until the SB's had already started. Before the SB, the AFL was a far inferior league.So before the SB, the NFL championship went to the best team in pro football.
                    Wrong again. The browns( an AAFC team) goes to the NFL and instantly starts winning NFL champions. Obviously it wasn't the SB era when the other leagues were talented.Otto Graham and Paul Brown would disagree. Once again, you have no proof of this. This far inferior league just suddenly starts getting good around the time it starts facing NFL teams? You and I know that's BS. Obviously it was always like this. People just never noticed cause the NFL never faced them. Then when they do everyone assumes " oh they must have JUST gotten better at this exact moment".

                    Before the merge you could say whatever championship was real(afl or nfl). But in the event of the merge when compared to the SB, the old ones fall apart.
                    Just to hide their NFL bias.
                    Last edited by GentleGiant; 04-23-2013, 06:39 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                      I'm not belittling the NFL. I'm just saying the merger was a business decision.The AFL really never existed as a real football competitor of the NFL before the first SB. They were really not as good as the NFL until the actual merger in 1970.Top to bottom, they were inferior to the NFL.My point is that the NFL championship before the suberbowl was the championship of the best teams and players in the world. The Superbowl started before the AFL was really anywhere near as good as the NFL.In other words, there was never any "sub championship" or anything close to it before the SB era. The NFL chamionship was the true championship of pro football.
                      Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                      The Steelers were an old NFL team. they were never an AFL team.AND to suggest that the Niners, 30 years after being in the NFL, by winning 5 SB's is somehow an indicator that the old AAC was a valid league is nonsense on steroids.
                      Jets, chiefs, raiders, and others still got rings.Your nitpicking. One AFL SB is all I need. Not to mention the browns old rings
                      Last edited by GentleGiant; 04-23-2013, 05:51 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                        There's no such thing as a fluke. They won it all . What they did after is irrelevant. They beat the supposedly better NFL team. The steelers beat the supposedly better NFL 4 times( despite you saying theyre bad).MS even said that he felt the AFL didn't get good until the 70s so he likely disagrees with you( although I feel the AFL was always as good). You can't find a point so you just try to dumb down every AFL team. Quit it. Don't accuse me of making excuses then go off and make an excuse for every AFC SB win. The niners have 5 but they were AAFC first. I guess all five of those were flukes too?

                        Just 1 AFL SB win proves my point.

                        Just admit that you're NFC bias. Tell me that Im wrong for saying the old championships don't compare but then tell me which AFL SBs were legit based off your own stupid biased opinion? Pathetic.
                        If I follow your way of thinking, an NFL Champion was not quite legitimate until it had absorbed the best teams of the AAFC and then merged with the AFL... so legitimate champions debuted with the SB era.
                        Well, you never answered my question posed many posts back...
                        What about the years that the WFL existed? They had legitimate NFL talent, Herschel Walker, Jim Kelly, and many others... so by your own standards, a truw NFL Superbowl champion was tarnished in those years.
                        Now, how about this... The Canadian Football league existed well before the SB era. It has had some excellent players, such as Hall of Famer Warren Moon, and Doug Flutie, and many other NFL worthy athletes have been playing in the CFL every year that there has been an NFL SB Champion. So, even NOW we do not have a legit champ and we'll have to merge with the CFL for a legit Champ.
                        I think I'm totally disillusioned and have finally figured it out. The NFL has always been, and will always be a sham.
                        Thank you for opening all of our eyes with your logic.
                        Last edited by zimonami; 04-23-2013, 06:27 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                          I'm not belittling the NFL. I'm just saying the merger was a business decision.The AFL really never existed as a real football competitor of the NFL before the first SB. They were really not as good as the NFL until the actual merger in 1970.Top to bottom, they were inferior to the NFL.My point is that the NFL championship before the suberbowl was the championship of the best teams and players in the world. The Superbowl started before the AFL was really anywhere near as good as the NFL.In other words, there was never any "sub championship" or anything close to it before the SB era. The NFL chamionship was the true championship of pro football.
                          Originally posted by zimonami View Post
                          If I follow your way of thinking, an NFL Champion was not quite legitimate until it had absorbed the best teams of the AAFC and then merged with the AFL... so legitimate champions debuted with the SB era.Well, you never answered my question posed many posts back...What about the years that the WFL existed? They had legitimate NFL talent, Herschel Walker, Jim Kelly, and many others... so by your own standards, a truw NFL Superbowl champion was tarnished in those years.Now, how about this... The Canadian Football league existed well before the SB era. It has had some excellent players, such as Hall of Famer Warren Moon, and Doug Flutie, and many other NFL worthy athletes have been playing in the CFL every year that there has been an NFL SB Champion. So, even NOW we do not have a legit champ and we'll have to merge with the CFL for a legit Champ.I think I'm totally disillusioned and have finally figured it out. The NFK has always been, and will always be a sham>Thank you for opening all of our eyes with your logic.
                          You do know what the word " National " means right? Good lord kid don't ask me stupid questions before you actually find the right freaking country. Wrong again. The NFL championships winners were champions. NFL champions. Wrong NFL kid. In the event that we do merge, the old ones become belittled. The NFL championships are championships but they are championships of THAT league. The SB is multiple leagues so therefore it means more.

                          Clearly my logic does work then since your logic says Canadians are Americans and America is the whole world.
                          Last edited by GentleGiant; 04-23-2013, 06:54 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                            You do know what the word " National " means right? Good lord kid don't ask me stupid questions before you actually find the right freaking country. Wrong again. The NFL championships winners were champions. NFL champions. Wrong NFL kid. In the event that we do merge the old ones become belittled.

                            Clearly my logic does work then since your logic says Canadians are Americans and America is the whole world.
                            Last time I looked, Canada and the United States comprise North America.
                            You still haven't answered my question about the WFL...
                            The WFL had legitimate talent during the SB era. So, it was as legitimate as the AAFC and the AFL. So, during those years a SB Champion was tarnished. You CANNOT deny that the WFL fits as perfectly as the AAFC. The AFC?NFC, ergo NFL, did not have all the best players... so we have to exclude the SB Champs from those years as being legitimate.

                            And, quit calling me kid, like I don't know what I'm talking about, you moronic twerp. I'm 66 years old and was a Giant fan before you were born

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                              Jets, chiefs, raiders, and others still got rings.Your nitpicking. One AFL SB is all I need. Not to mention the browns old rings
                              There were two by the way.
                              Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                                Jets, chiefs, raiders, and others still got rings.Your nitpicking. One AFL SB is all I need. Not to mention the browns old rings
                                The Browns were in the NFL when they won the NFL championship. It seems obvious to me.
                                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                                Comment

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