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Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

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  • #16
    Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

    [quote user="miked1958"]didnt see that one... link[/quote][link]http://boards.giants.com/forums/2458774/ShowThread.aspx#2458774[/link]
    Peace,
    DragonSoul



    Twitter Account! https://twitter.com/DragonSoul

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

      [quote user="Ntegrase96"]Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

      Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

      Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
      [/quote]All his early games were @ home. So he still was green and inexperienced. Also do not forget that Giants stadium was/is one of the worst stadiums to play in based on the wind, and those playoff games are now coming at the worst times of the year based on weather/winds.

      How many QBs win any type of playoff games early in their career (home or away), without being helped by the team to get them throughout it? And again, not many have such hostile conditions @ times.

      Just look at the last playoff game. If he have had played bad, then you might of had a point.
      Peace,
      DragonSoul



      Twitter Account! https://twitter.com/DragonSoul

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.



        [quote user="Ntegrase96"]Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

        Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

        Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
        [/quote]Yes he had his struggles early on in his career. Then the year Plax shot himself we started out 11-1 but with the Dline breaking down and no backups we were booted out in 1st round in a bad game. </P>


        in 05 lost 23-0 to carolina at home</P>


        in 08 (yr after SB) lost in at home to Philly 23-11. </P>


        However I wouldnt call beating a team with roddy white, Julio and Turner @ home 24-2 struggling. </P>


        He also set another record this season. Prior to this year the record for most TD passes in the 4th quarter was shared by peyton manning and Johnny Unitas with 14 each. This year Eli threw for 15 of them. </P>


        He has done it again in the 4th quarther of playoffs. He is clutch when it counts.</P>
        Football has been very, very good to us.
        After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
        But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

        # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

        1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
        2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
        3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
        4-New York Giants!!!
        5-NE
        Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

        ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

          [quote user="Ntegrase96"]Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

          Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

          Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
          [/quote]

          Well I guess that would be a chances thing as well because he hasn't had nearly as many chances at home then on the road.

          About Eli not being Elite I figure 4000 yards and 30 TD's in the last 2 seasons before this year help prove that consistency has developed in his game since the Superbowl run. And now this year when most QB's took it up a notch Eli didn't just stay back he kicked it up and was just a few yards short of being a handful of QB's to break 5K. As for the TD/INT ratio well obviously he had a rough go for the 1st 3 years or so but last year and this year hasn't had the best protection, lots of WR tipped balls last year. Being truthful I as well didn't think I would ever view Eli as an Elite QB because of many of the reasons you listed but when you factor in that we are probably not only missing the playoffs but selecting top 5 in the draft without him. He puts us in a position to win every game even if nobody else shows up for 3 quarters our team knows if they keep it close enough that Eli can go out there and win.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.



            [quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="miked1958"]didnt see that one... link[/quote][link]http://boards.giants.com/forums/2458774/ShowThread.aspx#2458774[/link][/quote]</P>


            thanks</P>
            Football has been very, very good to us.
            After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
            But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

            # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

            1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
            2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
            3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
            4-New York Giants!!!
            5-NE
            Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

            ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

              [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="miked1958"]


              All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </P>


              What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</P>


              [/quote]

              To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

              Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

              And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

              8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

              That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

              I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


              Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
              [/quote]</P>


              So after he wins his 2nd Ring in 4 years on feb 5th. Has the most wins 6 away from home in playoff history, has the record for most 4th quarter Tds.... You dont think all of your fanbase wouldnt kill to have Eli over Romo... Come on now answer it honestly... </P>
              Football has been very, very good to us.
              After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
              But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

              # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

              1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
              2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
              3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
              4-New York Giants!!!
              5-NE
              Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

              ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                [quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

                Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

                Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
                [/quote]All his early games were @ home. So he still was green and inexperienced. Also do not forget that Giants stadium was/is one of the worst stadiums to play in based on the wind, and those playoff games are now coming at the worst times of the year based on weather/winds.

                How many QBs win any type of playoff games early in their career (home or away), without being helped by the team to get them throughout it? And again, not many have such hostile conditions @ times.

                Just look at the last playoff game. If he have had played bad, then you might of had a point.[/quote]

                2008?

                The bolded part goes both ways.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                  [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

                  Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

                  Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
                  [/quote]All his early games were @ home. So he still was green and inexperienced. Also do not forget that Giants stadium was/is one of the worst stadiums to play in based on the wind, and those playoff games are now coming at the worst times of the year based on weather/winds.

                  How many QBs win any type of playoff games early in their career (home or away), without being helped by the team to get them throughout it? And again, not many have such hostile conditions @ times.

                  Just look at the last playoff game. If he have had played bad, then you might of had a point.[/quote]

                  2008?

                  The bolded part goes both ways.
                  [/quote]Lost by a FG? After we lost our top tier wr cause he was dumb enough to shoot himself? I did not think it would have been a factor, but apparently it was. As Eli while improving each year, wasn't at the point, and it didn't help with who he had left. Really only reliable one at that time was Toomer.

                  Also I am about to reply to your Eli isn't Elite post. Couldn't earlier as I wasn't going to have time to... So if you want, feel free to wait for that one, so we can merge the talk lol.
                  Peace,
                  DragonSoul



                  Twitter Account! https://twitter.com/DragonSoul

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                    [quote user="JPP"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

                    Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

                    Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
                    [/quote]

                    Well I guess that would be a chances thing as well because he hasn't had nearly as many chances at home then on the road.

                    About Eli not being Elite I figure 4000 yards and 30 TD's in the last 2 seasons before this year help prove that consistency has developed in his game since the Superbowl run. And now this year when most QB's took it up a notch Eli didn't just stay back he kicked it up and was just a few yards short of being a handful of QB's to break 5K. As for the TD/INT ratio well obviously he had a rough go for the 1st 3 years or so but last year and this year hasn't had the best protection, lots of WR tipped balls last year. Being truthful I as well didn't think I would ever view Eli as an Elite QB because of many of the reasons you listed but when you factor in that we are probably not only missing the playoffs but selecting top 5 in the draft without him. He puts us in a position to win every game even if nobody else shows up for 3 quarters our team knows if they keep it close enough that Eli can go out there and win.[/quote]

                    He's been pretty impressive, I don't deny that. And he's been consistent the last two years. But he's also been consistent in turnovers.

                    Responsible for 61 TDs but also responsible for 50 turnovers. It's not just the first couple of years in Eli's career where he's had a problem with turnovers.

                    I agree Eli was a big proponent to getting you to the playoffs, but just because the Giants have a lot of come from behind wins this year, doesn't mean that they would have lost those games without Eli-- Yes he was big in the comebacks but the team you have is not a bottom 5 team by any means, even with all the injuries.


                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                      [quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

                      Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

                      Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
                      [/quote]All his early games were @ home. So he still was green and inexperienced. Also do not forget that Giants stadium was/is one of the worst stadiums to play in based on the wind, and those playoff games are now coming at the worst times of the year based on weather/winds.

                      How many QBs win any type of playoff games early in their career (home or away), without being helped by the team to get them throughout it? And again, not many have such hostile conditions @ times.

                      Just look at the last playoff game. If he have had played bad, then you might of had a point.[/quote]

                      2008?

                      The bolded part goes both ways.
                      [/quote]Lost by a FG? After we lost our top tier wr cause he was dumb enough to shoot himself? I did not think it would have been a factor, but apparently it was. As Eli while improving each year, wasn't at the point, and it didn't help with who he had left. Really only reliable one at that time was Toomer.

                      Also I am about to reply to your Eli isn't Elite post. Couldn't earlier as I wasn't going to have time to... So if you want, feel free to wait for that one, so we can merge the talk lol.[/quote]

                      I'm just saying you said it was when he was still "green". Yet he had already helped win a superbowl.

                      Yes plax wasn't there, which enabled the eagles to stack the box and stop the run game and dared Eli to beat him with his arm-- he couldn't.

                      So if he was still green then, why should he deserve much credit for 2007?

                      edit: sure thing bud. I'll wait... got time to kill
                      [B]

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                        [quote user="miked1958"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="miked1958"]


                        All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


                        What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>


                        [/quote]

                        To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

                        Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

                        And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

                        8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

                        That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

                        I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


                        Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
                        [/quote]</p>


                        So after he wins his 2nd Ring in 4 years on feb 5th. Has the most wins 6 away from home in playoff history, has the record for most 4th quarter Tds.... You dont think all of your fanbase wouldnt kill to have Eli over Romo... Come on now answer it honestly... </p>[/quote]

                        I'd kill to have the success Eli has had. I don't necessarily think that if you swap the two either would have better or equal success.

                        Eli has, in his best stretches, had a strong running game and defense to rely upon. Romo has never had that. So I wouldn't expect Eli to come to Dallas and play better football than he is now.

                        The Cowboys have many problems that will take 2 years or more to fix, the root of which have been around since 2006 when Romo took over (porous secondary, poor o line, awful safeties, poor d'line as a unit).

                        I, do, however think he's a better QB because of things that cannot be measured. In fact I even took the other side of the Eli vs Romo debate over on cowboyszone... it wasn't a popular move

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                          [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="miked1958"]

                          All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


                          What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>[/quote]

                          To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

                          Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

                          And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

                          8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

                          That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

                          I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


                          Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
                          [/quote]Well what is elite? Here are a few things most will agree on.

                          1) Clutch - When the lights are on you, can you make a play and win. Was proven in the biggest spot SB42 , not once but twice. Also proven this season. Main reason EA wanted Eli.

                          2) Can he make the players around him better? This was also another reason EA wanted Eli. Well that is what they said of Brady and Peyton. Eli has the last two years, even 3. Do not forget Victor, Balard, Hynoski, were all UFA when we picked them up, or we had the worst run game, or that we lost pro bowler Smith and Boss, while no one said we would win. Same as when we lost plax and even shockey back in the day.

                          3) Records/stats - He holds a few. Not top 3 or 5, but #1. And while his stats are a bit under a few of the guys you mentioned. This team was generally a running team, or close to 50/50, till really this year. It does not help your stats if you play a more balanced game.

                          Also he does not pad his stats like Brady, and Brees. Two years ago if I am correct he did not play for over 4 quarters, because of how we were winning. And the tendency to take the foot off the gas. Which at times cost us. Like it did last year with philly even when we finished with a 10-6 record.

                          Also lets not forget this about Elis stats. Eli throws a lot of deep balls, not the easiest thing to do, since it relies on many things to work out, or go right. Do you know Eli probably lost 5 tds because of wrs, and about 2-3 were big time throws? But thats not in the stat sheet. How much better would of his numbers been then?

                          You do realize all players including Elite players have bad games, and bad players have good games. How did Peyton fair vs the Pats in the playoffs for years? How did Brady do in the SB 42 when he did not have all day to throw? How did Rodgers fair with our defense this year? Then how did Eli fair vs SF this past week?

                          Then how did Flynn do for GB in the last game of the season. Ro Rex vs us? (do you want rex? at least he is not better then romo), Or how did that Kolb trade look after he only had a couple good games?

                          Trust me there are many examples, and trying to nit pick is silly. You and the Eagles did not make it to the playoffs because both of your respective QBS gave games away when it counted the most. Eli won most of them, and if not for a fluke play or two, would have had two more in the season vs SF and Seattle. But hey it happens, can't win them all right.

                          Now for your TD/INT ratio, he has had maybe 10 for estimation that were on him, but when players are running the wrong routes (like this year if you have not seen) then it makes the qb look bad and increases the INTS. Not sure how that is on the QB. Also if you want to look at Elis numbers, please let me know how all his other numbers looked from rookie season till today? They all went in general the direction you want. Except the fluke he had last year with ints (proven that 10 were on the receivers)

                          Also do not forget the defenses Eli has faced in the NFC east most of his career. Top Tier.

                          The Jets game, was not a great one I agree, but as mentioned before good games and bad games for all. Also that 99 yard happened before the half, so to tell me we won a game before the end of half time (that was ugly, and not a blow out) is very foolish/silly. He had an off game, because of the wrs, line, and facing a decent defense. But he was off too early on if i recall. Happens... And even, if you wanted to use that 99 harder against us as luck. It was far from luck, as he got the ball were it needed to be, and the wr made a play (they get paid for that) I have never seen people complain about how stafford throws the ball up to C.Johnson who is covered by 2-3 players and comes down with a TD nearly every time, or breaks a big time TD run. Apparently thats ok for everyone to have except Eli. Eli never had these type of players before. It is nice to not to have wrs catch a ball and then fall on a ground for 0 YAC.

                          While Rodgers had a great year. He deserves the Accolades, the guy needs to do it for awhile. It is also nice when during the entire season he was only trailing for 3 minutes. Yet vs the Giants in the playoffs he was trailing for 6+ minutes, and you saw what happened.

                          Another x-factor that most do not talk about. Toughness. We have seen now, how Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers handles pressure typically. They get mad, and make a mistake.

                          Eli vs a top tier defense, still was the ray of light for the team. And you do realize he would of had a better game if it was not windy/rainy (which people would knock him, saying he can't play in bad weather).

                          Honestly I do not have these type of debates anymore, because generally it is not worth it, as fans will only see what they want. It is up to them to have a change in views.

                          Not sure if you recall in my older posts (as i come and go in this section) I stated a few things.

                          1) McNabb will never win, he chokes (how many chances did he get, even with top tier defenses.

                          2) conVICK - Is a playmaker and not a QB, and apparently now he is a choker as well.

                          3) Romo - To me he was a mini-mcnabb. He can put up stats (nice to be in a dome) but when its all said and done, he chokes just like McNabb use to.

                          I truly, and honestly hope those guys stick around. And I was the first guy to say I was happy Vick signed with the Eagles. As I knew they wasted there money on nothing special, and it would hurt them for years to come (love it). At least they made some of it back with the Kolb trade lol.
                          Peace,
                          DragonSoul



                          Twitter Account! https://twitter.com/DragonSoul

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                            It is amazing that folks still have this debate. I always laugh at it because Eli Manning is taking us to another SuperBowl whether folks wat to give him credit for it or not.

                            Folks are trying to say Mike Vick is better and that Troy Aikman was better. No way. Eli Manning is in a class that dog killa could never approach. It is pure stupidity that anyone would even say that Mike Vick is better than Eli Manning. In regard to Troy Aikman and how everyone explains the stat difference as different times? Whatever. The game has not changed much no matter how many times folks want to try and argue that. Eli Manning is a better QB than Troy Aikman ever was. It is not even close.

                            Most QBs would have collapsed under the beating that Eli Manning took against San Francsco 49ers in NFC Championship game. Heck Mike Vick would nbot have made it out of the and would still be crying about it at press conferences. Tom Brady as great as he is would not have been able to perform like Eli Manning did in NFC Championship game. With the weather nad field conditions what they were and against that rabid San Francisco 49ers defense you canít play better at QB than Eli Manning did that day. Itís not just how he played but it is also how unfazed he was by the beating he took. That is the thing that Eli Manning does better than every QB in NFL.

                            We are going to always hear about how Eli Manning is not ELIte. We are always going to hear the critics putting him down and never acknowledging how great he is. That will never change because there are tons of jealous folks out there that will never be honest.

                            We will just have to be content watching Eli Manning play QB almost every week at an ELIte level. We will just have to be content as he continues to lead NY Giants to playoffs and SuperBowl victories and keeps us competittive for years to come.
                            We will have to be content watching Eli Manning the greatest QB in NY Giants history continue to lead our team on his way to the Hall of Fame.

                            I have always appreciated Eli Manning and am as ecstatic that he is our QB as I was on the day NY Giants announced he was coming to our team.

                            I bELIeve.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                              [quote user="DragonSoul"]Well what is elite? [/quote] First off, you
                              know Elite when you see it. If it has to be debated, than it's no
                              debate at all. That's probably the simplest way I can explain it, but
                              I'll go ahead and reply to the rest of your response.

                              [quote
                              user="DragonSoul"] Here are a few things most will agree on.
                              1) Clutch - When the lights are on you, can you make a play and win.
                              Was proven in the biggest spot SB42 , not once but twice. Also proven
                              this season. Main reason EA wanted Eli.
                              2) Can he make the players around him better? This was also another
                              reason EA wanted Eli. Well that is what they said of Brady and Peyton.
                              Eli has the last two years, even 3. Do not forget Victor, Balard,
                              Hynoski, were all UFA when we picked them up, or we had the worst run
                              game, or that we lost pro bowler Smith and Boss, while no one said we
                              would win. Same as when we lost plax and even shockey back in the day.
                              [/quote]

                              Ballard is probably an average tight end, but his
                              numbers also reflect that, and as I've stated before here (after the
                              Pats game) he's a clear upgrade over Boss. As Cruz is over Steve Smith.
                              The Combination of Cruz and Nicks make the NY Giants receiving options
                              easily the best in the NFCE. Just because guys are undrafted free
                              agents doesn't mean they can't ball (Romo, Austin). You'd have to be
                              lying if you didn't say that these guys didn't make up the best
                              receiving options for Eli-- hell maybe even the entire Giants history.
                              Go watch Victor Cruz highlights and tell me that Eli's making him
                              better... I think it's quite the other way around

                              [quote
                              user="DragonSoul"]3) Records/stats - He holds a few. Not top 3 or 5,
                              but #1. And while his stats are a bit under a few of the guys you
                              mentioned. This team was generally a running team, or close to 50/50,
                              till really this year. It does not help your stats if you play a more
                              balanced game.
                              Also he does not pad his stats like Brady, and Brees. Two years ago if
                              I am correct he did not play for over 4 quarters, because of how we
                              were winning. And the tendency to take the foot off the gas. Which at
                              times cost us. Like it did last year with philly even when we finished
                              with a 10-6 record. Also lets not forget this about Elis stats. Eli
                              throws a lot of deep balls, not the easiest thing to do, since it
                              relies on many things to work out, or go right. Do you know Eli
                              probably lost 5 tds because of wrs, and about 2-3 were big time throws?
                              But thats not in the stat sheet. How much better would of his numbers
                              been then?
                              [/quote]

                              Which records?

                              [quote user="DragonSoul"]You do
                              realize all players including Elite players have bad games, and bad
                              players have good games. How did Peyton fair vs the Pats in the
                              playoffs for years? How did Brady do in the SB 42 when he did not have
                              all day to throw? How did Rodgers fair with our defense this year? Then
                              how did Eli fair vs SF this past week?
                              Then how did Flynn do for GB in the last game of the season. Ro Rex vs
                              us? (do you want rex? at least he is not better then romo), Or how did
                              that Kolb trade look after he only had a couple good games?
                              Trust me there are many examples, and trying to nit pick is
                              silly.[/quote]

                              Yes.
                              Elite players have bad games. But Eli's inconsistency is illustrated
                              over the last 8 games of the regular season-- Mediocre game, bad game,
                              two mediocre games, great game, 2 pretty awful games, one very good
                              game.

                              [quote user="DragonSoul"]You and the Eagles did not make
                              it to the playoffs because both of your respective QBS gave games away
                              when it counted the most. Eli won most of them, and if not for a fluke
                              play or two, would have had two more in the season vs SF and Seattle.
                              But hey it happens, can't win them all right.[/quote]

                              Contrary
                              to belief, Romo wasn't a huge factor in the declining Cowboys this
                              year, nor was Vick really. Yes Romo gave up 1 game for sure and shared
                              a lot of blame in another... mind you this was after coming off half a
                              season/one was when the broken rib was still fresh. Romo would have had
                              one less game winning drive, had it not been for special teams,
                              possibly two. As for Vick, he was pretty fragile and that's about it.
                              The defense finally stepped up far too late, or else the Eagles would
                              have been in the playoffs.


                              [quote user="DragonSoul"]Now
                              for your TD/INT ratio, he has had maybe 10 for estimation that were on
                              him, but when players are running the wrong routes (like this year if
                              you have not seen) then it makes the qb look bad and increases the
                              INTS. Not sure how that is on the QB. Also if you want to look at Elis
                              numbers, please let me know how all his other numbers looked from
                              rookie season till today? They all went in general the direction you
                              want. Except the fluke he had last year with ints (proven that 10 were
                              on the receivers) Also do not forget the defenses Eli has faced in the
                              NFC east most of his career. Top Tier.[/quote]

                              Agreed,
                              that's how you want the trend to go. Of course probably not at such a
                              gradual pace, but he's gotten there. Still the turnovers remain.

                              Every
                              QB has interceptions that are 'not on him'. Hell, I think all of Romo's
                              last year were pretty much not his fault before he went down with that
                              injury.

                              The Cowboys haven't had a top tier defense since the
                              early 90s, believe me. The Eagles? They've had some good ones, and the
                              Redskins have their years. Now if he played in the AFCN, then that
                              would be different.



                              [quote user="DragonSoul"]The Jets
                              game, was not a great one I agree, but as mentioned before good games
                              and bad games for all. Also that 99 yard happened before the half, so
                              to tell me we won a game before the end of half time (that was ugly,
                              and not a blow out) is very foolish/silly. He had an off game, because
                              of the wrs, line, and facing a decent defense. But he was off too early
                              on if i recall. Happens... And even, if you wanted to use that 99
                              harder against us as luck. It was far from luck, as he got the ball
                              were it needed to be, and the wr made a play (they get paid for that) I
                              have never seen people complain about how stafford throws the ball up
                              to C.Johnson who is covered by 2-3 players and comes down with a TD
                              nearly every time, or breaks a big time TD run. Apparently thats ok for
                              everyone to have except Eli. Eli never had these type of players
                              before. It is nice to not to have wrs catch a ball and then fall on a
                              ground for 0 YAC. While Rodgers had a great year. He deserves the
                              Accolades, the guy needs to do it for awhile. It is also nice when
                              during the entire season he was only trailing for 3 minutes. Yet vs the
                              Giants in the playoffs he was trailing for 6+ minutes, and you saw what
                              happened.
                              Another x-factor that most do not talk about.[/quote]

                              I never said it was luck. It was a good move by Cruz and the Jets missed tackles, Eli completed a 9 1/2 yard pass.

                              Rodgers
                              has had more good season than Eli already including a monster season
                              last year (on a team with a worse defense and equally as bad running
                              game in a tougher division). I think he's done it long enough. The
                              Packers found a bad day to have an off day. Not saying they would have
                              won, but you can hardly pin that game on Rodgers, nor imply that he's
                              not good with adversity. He missed maybe two throws that game, but
                              overall moved the chains when they needed to be moved... or at least
                              held up his end of the bargain.

                              [quote
                              user="DragonSoul"]Toughness. We have seen now, how Brady, Peyton, and
                              Rodgers handles pressure typically. They get mad, and make a mistake.
                              Eli vs a top tier defense, still was the ray of light for the team. And
                              you do realize he would of had a better game if it was not windy/rainy
                              (which people would knock him, saying he can't play in bad weather).
                              Honestly I do not have these type of debates anymore, because generally
                              it is not worth it, as fans will only see what they want. It is up to
                              them to have a change in views.
                              [/quote]

                              Perhaps. Or perhaps if the 9ers defense had've held on
                              to the interceptions thrown he would have virtually had the same game
                              as the first go 'round. Not into woulda-shoulda-couldas, but the
                              mistakes were there as well as outstanding first half play. But then
                              Cruz got tired and suddenly Eli couldn't find anyone for the majority
                              of the second half.

                              [quote user="DragonSoul"]Not sure if you
                              recall in my older posts (as i come and go in this section) I stated a
                              few things.
                              1) McNabb will never win, he chokes (how many chances did he get, even
                              with top tier defenses.
                              2) conVICK - Is a playmaker and not a QB, and apparently now he is a
                              choker as well.
                              3) Romo - To me he was a mini-mcnabb. He can put up stats (nice to be
                              in a dome) but when its all said and done, he chokes just like McNabb
                              use to.
                              I truly, and honestly hope those guys stick around. And I was the first
                              guy to say I was happy Vick signed with the Eagles. As I knew they
                              wasted there money on nothing special, and it would hurt them for years
                              to come (love it). At least they made some of it back with the Kolb
                              trade lol.[/quote]

                              I
                              think this is the biggest reason Giants fans love Eli. He is the anti
                              Romo, Vick, or McNabb. He shows up when the pressure is on. But
                              consequently, being the anti Romo/Vick/McNabb means that he doesn't
                              really show up until the 4th quarter for the most part. He plays better
                              from behind, but this year had a low 70 rating when leading or tied.
                              Why one is more admirable than the other just doesn't make sense to me
                              as long as you're winning.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                                [quote user="buffyblue"] In regard to Troy Aikman and how everyone explains the stat difference as different times? Whatever. The game has not changed much no matter how many times folks want to try and argue that. Eli Manning is a better QB than Troy Aikman ever was. It is not even close. [/quote]

                                Even if you just started watching football this in the last 10 years you'd know that's wrong. This is a much more pass happy league because of the talent at WR and the ticky tack rules enforced on defenses.



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