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  • #31
    Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

    This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

      [quote user="Sundown"]This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.[/quote]

      Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

        [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="miked1958"]

        All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


        What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>[/quote]

        To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

        Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

        And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

        8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

        That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

        I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


        Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
        [/quote] I dont think any other QB in the NFL could of taken that beating against the 49ers kept his cool and not force the ball

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

          [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="Sundown"]This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.[/quote]

          Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
          [/quote]

          Cool. I saw Romo and was like oh geez!! Didn't feel like reading all the threads hahaha

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

            [quote user="Sundown"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="Sundown"]This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.[/quote]

            Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
            [/quote]

            Cool. I saw Romo and was like oh geez!! Didn't feel like reading all the threads hahaha[/quote]

            No you'll get no argument from me. Eli's a better QB than Romo because of things that can't be measured. He's gotten his team to the superbowl this year and has had a pretty good season.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

              [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="miked1958"]

              All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


              What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>[/quote]

              To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

              Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

              And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

              8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

              That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

              I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


              Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
              [/quote] I dont think any other QB in the NFL could of taken that beating against the 49ers kept his cool and not force the ball[/quote]

              Probably right. Although he did force the ball a couple of times. They just didn't result in turnovers.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="Sundown"]This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.[/quote]

                Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
                [/quote]Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch & the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

                Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

                Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

                Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

                Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

                Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

                Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

                So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

                Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.

                Peace,
                DragonSoul



                Twitter Account! https://twitter.com/DragonSoul

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                  [quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="Sundown"]This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.[/quote]

                  Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
                  [/quote]Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch &amp; the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

                  Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

                  Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

                  Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

                  Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

                  Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

                  Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

                  So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

                  Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.[/quote]

                  Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

                  He's very clutch. No one denies that.

                  And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

                  I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

                  Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



                  Tom Brady:
                  300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

                  Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

                  Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

                  Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



                  Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



                  What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                    [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="Sundown"]This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.[/quote]

                    Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
                    [/quote]Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch & the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

                    Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

                    Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

                    Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

                    Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

                    Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

                    Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

                    So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

                    Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.[/quote]

                    Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

                    He's very clutch. No one denies that.

                    And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

                    I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

                    Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



                    Tom Brady:
                    300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

                    Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

                    Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

                    Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



                    Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



                    What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.
                    [/quote]Let me just bring one thing up about the near ints. Last year Eli did have 25 ints, but 10 of them were tipped. They said that Eli was the least luckiest of all QBS last year, since most of his tips turned into INTS. While Vick and Brady were the luckiest as they turned in to dropped balls. Many did not or do not realize that either.

                    Here is another quick example of how Elis ints happen. Remember the ball that Lee intercepted with his back to the play and 1 arm in the cast? Or how one int vs the Skins hit the back of Fletchers arm/head for an int? Those have nothing to do with the qb. Also you want to talk about seattle and the skins. Well Seattle we had the chance as mentioned before if cruz didn't slip but worst of all TIP another ball that was picked to the house. And during all that our defense stunk. Sometimes when you are asked to do a lot with a bad defense, bad protection, and run game, they catch you. And they did. Happens to the best of them. Yet when Eli gets hit, he still wins, when most get rattled and falter ala Peyton, Brees and Brady.

                    I do agree Nicks did it on his own, and while Cruz has some great talent, it was Eli that help bring it out. They all say Eli is there help, teaching them. Plus you need a QB who can get it to them as well.

                    Also many QBs really do hit there stride around 6-8 years. Watch those numbers rise, but again do not forget we were a very run happy offense, and that needs to be taken into account, as well as the place he plays @.

                    But we can leave this debate alone, as we can agree to disagree. But once Eli hits the HOF, you can ask for my forgiveness lol...

                    Do not forget I also told you, that you wouldn't win with the Wade, just like Norv, they are not good HC. With Jason, the jury is out, but not a great start with those blown games.

                    Also you said romo wasn't as bad. He wasn't at the end of the year, but he cost you in the beginning of the year. He just switched sides.
                    Peace,
                    DragonSoul



                    Twitter Account! https://twitter.com/DragonSoul

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                      [quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="Sundown"]This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.[/quote]

                      Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
                      [/quote]Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch &amp; the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

                      Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

                      Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

                      Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

                      Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

                      Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

                      Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

                      So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

                      Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.[/quote]

                      Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

                      He's very clutch. No one denies that.

                      And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

                      I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

                      Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



                      Tom Brady:
                      300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

                      Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

                      Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

                      Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



                      Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



                      What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.
                      [/quote]Let me just bring one thing up about the near ints. Last year Eli did have 25 ints, but 10 of them were tipped. They said that Eli was the least luckiest of all QBS last year, since most of his tips turned into INTS. While Vick and Brady were the luckiest as they turned in to dropped balls. Many did not or do not realize that either.

                      Here is another quick example of how Elis ints happen. Remember the ball that Lee intercepted with his back to the play and 1 arm in the cast? Or how one int vs the Skins hit the back of Fletchers arm/head for an int? Those have nothing to do with the qb. Also you want to talk about seattle and the skins. Well Seattle we had the chance as mentioned before if cruz didn't slip but worst of all TIP another ball that was picked to the house. And during all that our defense stunk. Sometimes when you are asked to do a lot with a bad defense, bad protection, and run game, they catch you. And they did. Happens to the best of them. Yet when Eli gets hit, he still wins, when most get rattled and falter ala Peyton, Brees and Brady.

                      I do agree Nicks did it on his own, and while Cruz has some great talent, it was Eli that help bring it out. They all say Eli is there help, teaching them. Plus you need a QB who can get it to them as well.

                      Also many QBs really do hit there stride around 6-8 years. Watch those numbers rise, but again do not forget we were a very run happy offense, and that needs to be taken into account, as well as the place he plays @.

                      But we can leave this debate alone, as we can agree to disagree. But once Eli hits the HOF, you can ask for my forgiveness lol...

                      Do not forget I also told you, that you wouldn't win with the Wade, just like Norv, they are not good HC. With Jason, the jury is out, but not a great start with those blown games.

                      Also you said romo wasn't as bad. He wasn't at the end of the year, but he cost you in the beginning of the year. He just switched sides.[/quote]

                      Basically what you're speaking of is football karma, and I DO believe it comes to those who deserve it-- a bit superstitious, but it's the only sane way I can describe a life time of sporting events that influenced the way I think.

                      Eli definitely maximizes the potential of the receivers he has. No doubt about it. But like I said, they're pretty damn good receivers to begin with.

                      Yeah, I think we're going to disagree until something drastically changes one of our viewpoints. No big deal-- you're happy with Eli and you guys are winning.

                      Eli's got a ways before he's HOF status, especially with the stringent criteria they'll surely place on QB inductees from this era. would love to make a bet with you on that, but we won't know about that for a long time. Like maybe I'd get a dog and have to name it Eli, or you'd have to send me 1,000 Ice cream sandwiches... or something like that.

                      I believe you did say we wouldn't win with Wade. But so did everyone else. Don't take that as a personal shot or anything, it was just common sense. Wade is an awful head coach.

                      The jury is still out on Garrett, agreed. But so far the only things he doesn't do well come with experience. Everything else he goes about much better than any coach since Jimmy Johnson-- not saying much, but it's a start. And I think he really wants to succeed here because of the chance Jerry and Jimmy took on him as a player.

                      Now answer the question... do you REALLY think he belongs with those 4 names I've listed above?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.



                        [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="Sundown"]This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.[/quote]

                        Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
                        [/quote]Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch &amp; the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded. Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs. Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat. Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other. Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out. Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather. Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB. So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it... Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.[/quote]

                        Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

                        He's very clutch. No one denies that.

                        And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

                        I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

                        Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



                        Tom Brady:
                        300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

                        Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

                        Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

                        Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



                        Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



                        What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.
                        [/quote]</P>


                        Well with a win on Feb 5th, Eli would pass 3 of the guys on your list SB Ring wise and poss add another SB MVP to his Resume. Now I must admit that the guys you have on the list dont have the brain farts you speak of as often, but they do have them. Also I saw Brees play a stinker vs Rams and Tampa this season. Brady lost to the Bills. Rodgers to KC.. </P>


                        There was another Thread titled "check out the pick, no exp needed"...</P>


                        It was a picture of Brees and Rodgers standing side by side at Practice for the Pro Bowl in Hawaii. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words, well that one was worth more. Caption..lol. Hey Arron I heard Eli made this Gig to, Wheres he at??? lol</P>
                        Football has been very, very good to us.
                        After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                        But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                        # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                        1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                        2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                        3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                        4-New York Giants!!!
                        5-NE
                        Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                        ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

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                        • #42
                          Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                          [quote user="Ntegrase96"]Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, <font size="5">cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle</font>, WSH twice)
                          [/quote]lol You obviously didnt watch that game. Terrible example.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                            [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="DragonSoul"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="Sundown"]This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.[/quote]

                            Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
                            [/quote]Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch & the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

                            Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

                            Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

                            Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

                            Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

                            Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

                            Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

                            So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

                            Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.[/quote]

                            Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

                            He's very clutch. No one denies that.

                            And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

                            I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

                            Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



                            Tom Brady:
                            300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

                            Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

                            Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

                            Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



                            Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



                            What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.
                            [/quote]Let me just bring one thing up about the near ints. Last year Eli did have 25 ints, but 10 of them were tipped. They said that Eli was the least luckiest of all QBS last year, since most of his tips turned into INTS. While Vick and Brady were the luckiest as they turned in to dropped balls. Many did not or do not realize that either.

                            Here is another quick example of how Elis ints happen. Remember the ball that Lee intercepted with his back to the play and 1 arm in the cast? Or how one int vs the Skins hit the back of Fletchers arm/head for an int? Those have nothing to do with the qb. Also you want to talk about seattle and the skins. Well Seattle we had the chance as mentioned before if cruz didn't slip but worst of all TIP another ball that was picked to the house. And during all that our defense stunk. Sometimes when you are asked to do a lot with a bad defense, bad protection, and run game, they catch you. And they did. Happens to the best of them. Yet when Eli gets hit, he still wins, when most get rattled and falter ala Peyton, Brees and Brady.

                            I do agree Nicks did it on his own, and while Cruz has some great talent, it was Eli that help bring it out. They all say Eli is there help, teaching them. Plus you need a QB who can get it to them as well.

                            Also many QBs really do hit there stride around 6-8 years. Watch those numbers rise, but again do not forget we were a very run happy offense, and that needs to be taken into account, as well as the place he plays @.

                            But we can leave this debate alone, as we can agree to disagree. But once Eli hits the HOF, you can ask for my forgiveness lol...

                            Do not forget I also told you, that you wouldn't win with the Wade, just like Norv, they are not good HC. With Jason, the jury is out, but not a great start with those blown games.

                            Also you said romo wasn't as bad. He wasn't at the end of the year, but he cost you in the beginning of the year. He just switched sides.[/quote]

                            Basically what you're speaking of is football karma, and I DO believe it comes to those who deserve it-- a bit superstitious, but it's the only sane way I can describe a life time of sporting events that influenced the way I think.

                            Eli definitely maximizes the potential of the receivers he has. No doubt about it. But like I said, they're pretty damn good receivers to begin with.

                            Yeah, I think we're going to disagree until something drastically changes one of our viewpoints. No big deal-- you're happy with Eli and you guys are winning.

                            Eli's got a ways before he's HOF status, especially with the stringent criteria they'll surely place on QB inductees from this era. would love to make a bet with you on that, but we won't know about that for a long time. Like maybe I'd get a dog and have to name it Eli, or you'd have to send me 1,000 Ice cream sandwiches... or something like that.

                            I believe you did say we wouldn't win with Wade. But so did everyone else. Don't take that as a personal shot or anything, it was just common sense. Wade is an awful head coach.

                            The jury is still out on Garrett, agreed. But so far the only things he doesn't do well come with experience. Everything else he goes about much better than any coach since Jimmy Johnson-- not saying much, but it's a start. And I think he really wants to succeed here because of the chance Jerry and Jimmy took on him as a player.

                            Now answer the question... do you REALLY think he belongs with those 4 names I've listed above?
                            [/quote]You do not want to bet me, because you may end up like this [link]http://boards.giants.com/forums/thread/2460463.aspx[/link] But if you want to make some type of bet we can. I have faith, since we drafted Eli. Been paying me back handily since then

                            I do agree Eli needs to do more, but I do not doubt that he will. As I said most Qbs hit there stride around 30, and it started to show last 2 years approximately.

                            Yea but I said you wouldn't win with Wade while everyone else still believed, including you my friend.

                            To you question. I do in certain regards. His numbers that you seem to be eyeing a lot are not exactly up to the guys you mentioned, but I hit upon some of the reasons. Also another reason people seem to be forgetting, they have played longer then he has.

                            Oh and the NFCN division was cake walk for years. This year the Lions never beat a team with a winning record all season, same as the Pats (till they did in the playoffs vs the ravens, with any other Offense besides SF and Ravens they would have lost) so you had the Vikes @ 3-13 and a decimated bears team at 8-8, with a lions team that couldn't beat a team with a winning record.

                            The main reason I put Eli in there is because he is clutch and has made big plays in big stages 90% of the time at least. He also has played w/whoever the Giants gave him and made it work.

                            Eli also got us into the playoffs for 4 straight years as a starter. Never had a losing season w/him as a starter, and even last year we should have been in the game if not for the defense and dodge w/a 10-6 Record.

                            People want too look at record and rightfully so, but they forget the context of some of those games.

                            Lets review : As a starter in the NFL for 7 years Eli Has gotten us into the -

                            playoffs 5 out of 7 years (and one of those years we missed the playoffs at 10-6, due to defense and ST as mentioned above)

                            Won a SB and a SB MVP vs an 18-0 team that was the BEST offense EVER in NFL HISTORY, and faced a TOP 5 DEFENSE as well. Unlike what Brady faced most years or even Ben when he beat the Cards.

                            And as this thread states he is the best Playoff Road QB of all time with about 6-9 years left.

                            Oh and the 15 TDS in the 4quarter ahead of only Peyton and Unitas.

                            Not sure what else is needed. A SB every year or every other? You do know Brady nor Peyton have gotten a SB since Eli has correct?

                            Peace,
                            DragonSoul



                            Twitter Account! https://twitter.com/DragonSoul

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                            • #44
                              Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                              For the new trolls, and haters that just got to the forums.
                              Peace,
                              DragonSoul



                              Twitter Account! https://twitter.com/DragonSoul

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Most PostSeason Wins by a Starting QB on the Road or Neutral Field.

                                I'll take the QB who goes 9-7 each year for 15 years and wins 8 Super bowls, throwing 25 TD's and 16 INT's each year with a 59% completion rate over the QB who goes 14-2 every year and wins 1. Elite means championships. No ring, no great.

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