Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

    OK we've been having this debate in 'THEE Thread' about who is the better LT David Diehl or Will Beatty.

    Yes, I understand that Double Deuce won 2 SBs with us, is a SUPER versatile OLman, an EXCELLENT teammate in the lockeroom, and one of the best OL we've had in Giants history, BUT...... In these past few seasons Diehl constantly is ranked among the worst OTs in the NFL year after year and we have a better LT with Will Beatty ready to go, hell in the 10 games he played this season he was killing it for us at LT

    Now this isnt me bashing Diehl, cause thats laughable, he's one of my favorite Giants, but all im saying is that his best chance at starting next season is at RT, cause Beatty is the LT of the future

    Here's a few articles that you guys may wanna reference
    -3 year Pass Blocking Efficiency
    - 2011 Pass Blocking Efficiency
    -2010 Pass Blocking Efficiency
    Will Beatty
    David Diehl

    Once again this is about WHO THE BETTER LT is, not who is a better Giant, who won more SBs, or whatever BS you guys wanna toss into play

    Discuss Amongst Yourselves.....

    Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'


  • #2
    Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

    honestly, its not even close. Beatty is a far far superior LT.

    He was the starting LT until he got hurt, I see no reason why it should even be questioned at this point.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

      There is something about Beatty that I just do not like. He just does not appear to be physical enough at the point of attack.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

        I believe in pass protection Beatty is unquestionably better. Just watch the games. On top of that, in 2011 and especially 2010 the run game was better without Diehl in the lineup. Beatty and Booth are a good T/G combo from what I have seen.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

          [quote user="slipknottin"]honestly, its not even close. Beatty is a far far superior LT.

          He was the starting LT until he got hurt, I see no reason why it should even be questioned at this point.[/quote]

          Maybe because our run game improved by roughly 50% (give or take) after Beatty went down and DD moved over to LT.

          I realize it wasn't that simple, because we can also say that Boothe and Petrus were better run blockers than Diehl had been at guard, when that change occurred, but even so.....at the very least, our pass game did not fall off to any noticeable degree and our run game improved when Diehl moved over.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

            [quote user="gmen46"]Maybe because our run game improved by roughly 50% (give or take) after Beatty went down and DD moved over to LT..[/quote]

            the run game got worse after Beatty got hurt. Go check the stats.

            As for the pass blocking, Diehl gave up more pressures/sacks/hits from his LG spot than Beatty gave up from LT.

            When Diehl moved to LT, the LG position was much more solid pass blocking with Boothe in there.

            At LT they gave Diehl constant help with double teams/chips, etc. And Eli still got pressured more after Beatty went down than he did with him. Eli had a remarkable season sensing pressure and getting the ball off fast.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

              [quote user="slipknottin"]honestly, its not even close. Beatty is a far far superior LT.

              He was the starting LT until he got hurt, I see no reason why it should even be questioned at this point.[/quote]

              Because run blocking on the left side was so bad, when we ran right our RBs were being tackled by the weakside DE (forget running left)? Just spit balling.

              Beatty is decent at pass protection and absolutely horrid at run blocking.

              Diehl is adequate at pass protection and good at run blocking.

              I would also say that the aforementioned stats really only prove that the stats themselves are meaningless in this case. They had the Rams LT as the #1 in pass protection ... regardless of the fact that Bradford was running for his life on every snap and ultimately missed games due to injury from being knocked around.

              Conversely, Diehl (who they have rated as dead last and second to last over the past 3 years) has won 2 Superbowls in 4 years, and been on a top 10 offense for 4 years in a row in a pass heavy offense.

              Whether Diehl is better or worse then Beatty is a moot point ... the Giants offense has been shown to work better with Diehl. Until I see Diehl actually breaking down (and mind you he played this year with a broken hand), I don't see the need to replace him at LT (and Beatty needs to get a bunch tougher).
              I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

                [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="gmen46"]Maybe because our run game improved by roughly 50% (give or take) after Beatty went down and DD moved over to LT..[/quote]

                the run game got worse after Beatty got hurt. Go check the stats.

                As for the pass blocking, Diehl gave up more pressures/sacks/hits from his LG spot than Beatty gave up from LT.

                When Diehl moved to LT, the LG position was much more solid pass blocking with Boothe in there.

                At LT they gave Diehl constant help with double teams/chips, etc. And Eli still got pressured more after Beatty went down than he did with him. Eli had a remarkable season sensing pressure and getting the ball off fast.[/quote]We were discussing this in THEE Thread so I did an avg of the avg, (LOL) of AB and BJ and this is what I got

                Bradshaw
                3.9ypc with Beatty
                3.6ypc after Beatty

                Jacobs
                3.1ypc with Beatty
                4.3ypc after Beatty
                Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

                  [quote user="Kruunch"] They had the Rams LT as the #1 in pass protection ... [/quote]

                  who is "they"?

                  Beatty already replaced Diehl.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

                    [quote user="Kase-1"]We were discussing this in THEE Thread so I did an avg of the avg, (LOL) of AB and BJ and this is what I got

                    Bradshaw
                    3.9ypc with Beatty
                    3.6ypc after Beatty

                    Jacobs
                    3.1ypc with Beatty
                    4.3ypc after Beatty
                    [/quote]

                    Is that including playoffs as well?

                    Either way, the stats clearly do NOT show that the giants ran 50% better with Diehl at LT. Far from it, bradshaw ran better with Beatty at LT


                    In any case, Ill take the LT who can pass block over the run blocker any day. Protecting Eli is by far the most important thing this franchise can do.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

                      [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="slipknottin"]honestly, its not even close. Beatty is a far far superior LT.

                      He was the starting LT until he got hurt, I see no reason why it should even be questioned at this point.[/quote]

                      Because run blocking on the left side was so bad, when we ran right our RBs were being tackled by the weakside DE (forget running left)? Just spit balling.

                      Beatty is decent at pass protection and absolutely horrid at run blocking.

                      Diehl is adequate at pass protection and good at run blocking.

                      I would also say that the aforementioned stats really only prove that the stats themselves are meaningless in this case. They had the Rams LT as the #1 in pass protection ... regardless of the fact that Bradford was running for his life on every snap and ultimately missed games due to injury from being knocked around.

                      Conversely, Diehl (who they have rated as dead last and second to last over the past 3 years) has won 2 Superbowls in 4 years, and been on a top 10 offense for 4 years in a row in a pass heavy offense.

                      Whether Diehl is better or worse then Beatty is a moot point ... the Giants offense has been shown to work better with Diehl. Until I see Diehl actually breaking down (and mind you he played this year with a broken hand), I don't see the need to replace him at LT (and Beatty needs to get a bunch tougher).[/quote]But that doesnt mean the pressure was coming from the LT, if anything it says he was one of the only guys doing his job on the OL

                      Actually the point of who is better at LT between Beatty and Diehl is not moot, cause this is a message board where we discuss football, its not like JReese is gonna see this and realize he's been wrong, we're simply fans discussing our team in the offseason..... Ya party pooper!!!!

                      Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

                        [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Kase-1"]We were discussing this in THEE Thread so I did an avg of the avg, (LOL) of AB and BJ and this is what I got

                        Bradshaw
                        3.9ypc with Beatty
                        3.6ypc after Beatty

                        Jacobs
                        3.1ypc with Beatty
                        4.3ypc after Beatty
                        [/quote]

                        Is that including playoffs as well?

                        Either way, the stats clearly do NOT show that the giants ran 50% better with Diehl at LT. Far from it, bradshaw ran better with Beatty at LT[/quote]Nope just regular season
                        Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

                          [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="gmen46"]Maybe because our run game improved by roughly 50% (give or take) after Beatty went down and DD moved over to LT..[/quote]

                          the run game got worse after Beatty got hurt. Go check the stats.
                          [/quote]

                          No they didn't. We gained 20 yards per game average after Beatty went down (granted, most of this I attribute to Bradshaw coming back but still there was an overlap of bad vs. good run blocking with and without Beatty there).


                          As for the pass blocking, Diehl gave up more pressures/sacks/hits from his LG spot than Beatty gave up from LT.
                          Worst stat ever. Trying to assign specific pressures and sacks to the LG position is just stupid. Tackles you can see clearly, but guards (and centers) always have a left/right counterpart that aids in that stat (and is not recorded).

                          When Diehl moved to LT, the LG position was much more solid pass blocking with Boothe in there.
                          Again, bad stat as the LG isn't the lynch-pin for pass blocking.

                          At LT they gave Diehl constant help with double teams/chips, etc. And Eli still got pressured more after Beatty went down than he did with him. Eli had a remarkable season sensing pressure and getting the ball off fast.
                          You forgot to mention that the VAST majority oif pressures came from the right side (KM's responsbility)

                          They were also chipping more to the right then left when opposing teams weren't blitzing the left side (just an FYI).

                          .
                          I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

                            Beatty all day. I think Diehl is done with the Giants or back at vet min.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Better LT: Beatty vs Diehl

                              [quote user="Kruunch"]
                              No they didn't. We gained 20 yards per game average after Beatty went down (granted, most of this I attribute to Bradshaw coming back but still there was an overlap of bad vs. good run blocking with and without Beatty there).[/quote]

                              Bradshaw + Beatty = higher ypc than Bradshaw - Beatty. How many yards per game is meaningless, because that is a function of how many carries they had.

                              Worst stat ever. Trying to assign specific pressures and sacks to the LG position is just stupid. Tackles you can see clearly, but guards (and centers) always have a left/right counterpart that aids in that stat (and is not recorded).
                              Only because it doesnt suit your argument.

                              Again, bad stat as the LG isn't the lynch-pin for pass blocking.
                              Nope, the LT is, which is why Diehl should absolutely never play LT again.


                              You forgot to mention that the VAST majority oif pressures came from the right side (KM's responsbility)
                              Nobody is making excuses for McKenzie, and nobody is arguing that he should start either. Both Diehl and McKenzie were absolutely brutal last year.

                              They were also chipping more to the right then left when opposing teams weren't blitzing the left side (just an FYI).
                              Not in the playoffs.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X