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Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

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  • Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

    I was just reading Gilbride's assessment on how he feels Cruz was better in the slot and I can't disagree more. His two TD's against Philly were from the outside. Jets TD he was lined up wide. Seahawks wide. I realize it's a Cadillac problem having a WR who can do both but I think he should line up on the outside at least 60% of the time.

  • #2
    Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

    Cruz gained ~1300 of his 1536 yards from the slot. I think Gilbride knows what he's talking about.

    Also, Cruz lined up outside around 55% of the time last season so I don't see what your issue is.

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    • #3
      Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

      [quote user="FloydEddings2"]I was just reading Gilbride's assessment on how he feels Cruz was better in the slot and I can't disagree more. His two TD's against Philly were from the outside. Jets TD he was lined up wide. Seahawks wide. I realize it's a Cadillac problem having a WR who can do both but I think he should line up on the outside at least 60% of the time.[/quote]

      I think he has more big plays on the outside because of his speed along with there being less traffic on the outside. But because hes so quick and shifty and a good route runner, he is more valuable on the inside. He has more of a chance to be explosive on the outside, but a better chance of being successful on the inside.

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      • #4
        Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

        [quote user="Flip Empty"]Cruz gained ~1300 of his 1536 yards from the slot. I think Gilbride knows what he's talking about.

        Also, Cruz lined up outside around 55% of the time last season so I don't see what your issue is.[/quote]

        yeah no matter what happens, all of our wr's will shift around, besides nicks.

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        • #5
          Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

          See this article for proof that he is way better in the slot than outside.

          I said it months ago when people seemed to think we will put Cruz outside and JJ inside, we are going to keep Cruz in the slot when it is 3 wr sets. We would be crazy not to.

          JJ may end up being a fine player, but unless there is an injury he is likely going to see limmited action because he is behind a guy who is the very best in the league at his position. Some posters here suggested we move Voctor outside and let JJ play inside, a point I argued strongly against. You don't take a guy who is the best in the league at 1 spot and move him to another. The Giants selected Rueben Randle in the 2nd round, a clear cut outside WR. This pretty much confirms exactly what I said.
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          • #6
            Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

            I think he translates very well on the outside, I've posted plenty about it, but you can't deny his production in the slot.

            My reasoning is, is that a WR who can win on the outside (which Cruz has the physical skills to do), is a lot more valuable to us than a slot WR who can be kept in check with less complex bracket schemes.

            Can Cruz be doubled outside? Yes, of course, but with Nicks outside as well, having to double the X, and the Z I find to be much more difficult a task than doubling an X, and bracketing a Y with a linebacker. I also find slot receivers to be much more easily replaced than a WR who can win on the outside, but that's just my (possibly flawed) perception. This is why I lobbied for a guy like Marvin Jones before the draft, I think he can do it all.

            But I've, despite 20+ posts of lobbying for Cruz as an outside guy have given up since the drafting of Randle. Now I think of the potency of a proven terror in the slot, an X receiver in Nicks who can win outside (even when doubled sometimes), and a potential all star in Randle. That gets me going.
            My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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            • #7
              Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

              [quote user="BlueSanta"]See this article for proof that he is way better in the slot than outside.

              [/quote]I wouldn't call that proof, as much as I would call it convincing.

              I can't, and no one can, deny that Cruz had excellent production (probably better production than any WR in the league, regardless of formation), and most came from the slot. He is, like the article says, perhaps the BEST slot receiver in the NFL.

              Make no mistake though, Cruz's ball skills, hands, route running, and speed translate very very well on the outside, in particular for what you look for in a Z receiver, in a dominant Z receiver. I have likened this kid to Marvin Harrison before, I really like his potential. Now, isn't it safe to say that a dominant outside receiver, is more valuable than a dominant slot receiver? They both have their benefits, but I thnk the assumption is safe to make.

              Now I do agree that moves the Giants have made this offseason support your theory, not mine, but is any of what I've said flawed in logic?
              My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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              • #8
                Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

                [quote user="Flip Empty"]Cruz gained ~1300 of his 1536 yards from the slot. I think Gilbride knows what he's talking about.

                Also, Cruz lined up outside around 55% of the time last season so I don't see what your issue is.[/quote]

                I haven't charted the games but those stats seem off. 85% of his yards came from the slot? Well if that's true then yeah, he's doing ok.

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                • #9
                  Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

                  [quote user="Flip Empty"]Cruz gained ~1300 of his 1536 yards from the slot. I think Gilbride knows what he's talking about.

                  Also, Cruz lined up outside around 55% of the time last season so I don't see what your issue is.[/quote]

                  That stat is not correct.
                  I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                  • #10
                    Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

                    [quote user="FloydEddings2"]I was just reading Gilbride's assessment on how he feels Cruz was better in the slot and I can't disagree more. His two TD's against Philly were from the outside. Jets TD he was lined up wide. Seahawks wide. I realize it's a Cadillac problem having a WR who can do both but I think he should line up on the outside at least 60% of the time.[/quote]

                    I think Cruz is more natural on the outside but he's our best slot receiver so in that sense, he's best in the slot.

                    Cruz made some really great strides learning the slot position last season.
                    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                    • #11
                      Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

                      [quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="BlueSanta"]See this article for proof that he is way better in the slot than outside.

                      [/quote]I wouldn't call that proof, as much as I would call it convincing.

                      I can't, and no one can, deny that Cruz had excellent production (probably better production than any WR in the league, regardless of formation), and most came from the slot. He is, like the article says, perhaps the BEST slot receiver in the NFL.

                      Make no mistake though, Cruz's ball skills, hands, route running, and speed translate very very well on the outside, in particular for what you look for in a Z receiver, in a dominant Z receiver. I have likened this kid to Marvin Harrison before, I really like his potential. Now, isn't it safe to say that a dominant outside receiver, is more valuable than a dominant slot receiver? They both have their benefits, but I thnk the assumption is safe to make.

                      Now I do agree that moves the Giants have made this offseason support your theory, not mine, but is any of what I've said flawed in logic?[/quote]

                      My point isnt that Cruz isnt capable of playing outside. He is, just not as well as he plays the slot, as that article does how quite clearly. LT prolly could have played ILB too if we needed. I am glad he stayed at the position he played the best.

                      As far as the value of a slot compared to an outside guy I completely do not agree. I think that is how teams used to think prior to the rule changes. Right now, the slot position is just as dangerous and valuable a position as an outside guy. Look at the jump in production in the league over the last few season out of slot recievers and TEs. Furthermore, look at how insanely comfortable Eli has been with slot recievers throughout his career.

                      Just a few years ago, a WR or TE crossing he field 5- 10 yards deep would get molested by a LB. Now you cant touch him after 5. This is why TE production has skyrocketed in recent years.

                      Lastly, if there is 1 thing Cruz does that isnt very good, it is blocking. He is only "ok" at downfield blocking. I see a lot of people neglect that aspect of a WRs job. In 2007, nobody could argue that we had the best downfield blocking WRs in the league. Maybe, 1 of the best blocking wr groups ever. Toomer and Plax were incredible. Nicks is good but MM and Cruz were very mediocre in this regard last year. You want your outside guys to be good sustaining run blockers. I think the Giants liked randle, in small part, because he comes from an offense that asked him to block guys a lot and he showed very capable skills.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

                        well we'll certainly find out next season. cruz will be out wide in 2 wr set formations, and in the slot on 3 wr formations.

                        I'm excited to see that, but also to see how guys like JJ, Randle, and Barden compete for the 3rd spot on the depth chart, and how KG will use them

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                        • #13
                          Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

                          [quote user="Flip Empty"]Cruz gained ~1300 of his 1536 yards from the slot. I think Gilbride knows what he's talking about.

                          Also, Cruz lined up outside around 55% of the time last season so I don't see what your issue is.[/quote]

                          I am pretty sure this is the first time those words have been "uttered" here. CONGRATULATIONS!
                          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                          • #14
                            Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

                            [quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="BlueSanta"]See this article for proof that he is way better in the slot than outside.

                            [/quote]I wouldn't call that proof, as much as I would call it convincing.

                            I can't, and no one can, deny that Cruz had excellent production (probably better production than any WR in the league, regardless of formation), and most came from the slot. He is, like the article says, perhaps the BEST slot receiver in the NFL.

                            Make no mistake though, Cruz's ball skills, hands, route running, and speed translate very very well on the outside, in particular for what you look for in a Z receiver, in a dominant Z receiver. I have likened this kid to Marvin Harrison before, I really like his potential. Now, isn't it safe to say that a dominant outside receiver, is more valuable than a dominant slot receiver? They both have their benefits, but I thnk the assumption is safe to make.

                            Now I do agree that moves the Giants have made this offseason support your theory, not mine, but is any of what I've said flawed in logic?[/quote]

                            That Cruz can play equally well at both is a huge plus for the team.
                            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                            • #15
                              Re: Is Cruz better in the slot or on the outside?

                              [quote user="FloydEddings2"]I was just reading Gilbride's assessment on how he feels Cruz was better in the slot and I can't disagree more. His two TD's against Philly were from the outside. Jets TD he was lined up wide. Seahawks wide. I realize it's a Cadillac problem having a WR who can do both but I think he should line up on the outside at least 60% of the time.[/quote]
                              Cruz' first TD against the Eagles he was lined up in the slot with Nicks wide on his side. They ran a switch or cross or whatever the technical term is and Cruz wound up running an outside route. But, he was still the slot receiver on that play. On the second one, it appears that he lined up wide and then motioned into the slot before the snap. Granted he was the "outside" receiver on the play, but he was still lined up in the slot. He was also lined up in the slot on the 99yd TD. I think Barden was on the outside. Likewise, Cruz was lined up in the slot again for the Seahawks TD.

                              Every single one of those TDs you mentioned, Cruz was lined up in the slot for at the snap, not on the outside.

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