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BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

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  • BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

    BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

    Excerpt: "Bill Parcells is
    considered the greatest coach in Giants history and is one of the favorites to
    be selected for the Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2013. If Tom
    Coughlin
    has not completely closed the gap on Parcells as the best Giants
    coach of all time, he's at least a big part of the conversation now that he's
    tied Parcells with his second Super Bowl championship.



    I believe the edge goes to Parcells because he’s the one who changed the
    culture of the Giants and began this era of five Super Bowl appearances and four
    titles beginning with the first Super Bowl in 1986. In the last 26 seasons, the
    Giants have won more Super Bowls than any team (Pats and Cowboys have won three)
    and only the Patriots have been in more Super Bowls with six.




    One more Super Bowl championship, or even appearance, and Coughlin jumps over
    Parcells. Steve Owen won two NFL Championships for the Giants when he was their
    coach from 1931-53, but he also lost six title games. He coached them nearly
    three times longer than Parcells or Coughlin.




    Here’s some things to consider in the Parcells vs. Coughlin discussion:




    - They each won the Super Bowl in their fourth and eighth seasons with the
    Giants. Parcells left after his eighth year. Coughlin, who will soon sign a
    multi-year extension, has time to add to his legacy.




    - Parcells had to be stopped from talking to Atlanta after his first Super
    Bowl and quit after his second. Once he was hired as Giants coach in 2004,
    Coughlin has never wanted to leave.




    - Parcells’ Super Bowl championships teams were better during the regular
    season. His 1986 team was 14-2 and in 1990 they were 13-3. Coughlin's Super Bowl
    teams were 10-6 in 2007 and last season became the first 9-7 team to win the
    Super Bowl. Parcells beat Hall of Famers John Elway and Jim Kelly in the Super
    Bowl. Coughlin has twice defeated Tom Brady, a future Hall of Famer.




    - Coughlin, who was hired by Parcells in 1988 and worked for him for three
    seasons, has won his two titles with less talent. Parcells had two Hall of Fame
    players: Lawrence Taylor, the best defensive player in NFL history, and Harry
    Carson, one of the top middle linebackers in history. Parcells also had Carl
    Banks, better than any linebacker on Coughlin’s teams. Phil Simms would have
    made the Hall of Fame if he hadn’t gotten hurt in 1990 and finished off the
    Super Bowl season. Coughlin has two potential Hall of Famers: Eli Manning and
    Michael Strahan, who is eligible for the first time after this season and will
    be competing with Parcells for one of the five spots. He also has had elite
    defensive players with Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora and Jason Pierre-Paul. Hakeem
    Nicks and Victor Cruz are better than any receivers Parcells had on his Super
    Bowl teams.

    - Parcells had the benefit of having Bill Belichick to run his defense.
    Belichick will make the Hall of Fame for getting the Patriots to five Super
    Bowls. Future head coaches Coughlin, Romeo Crennel, Al Groh and Charlie Weis
    were also on Parcells’ staff. Coughlin’s staff has been solid — Kevin Gilbride
    has done an excellent job with Manning for eight years and former defensive
    coordinator Steve Spagnuolo had as a good a year in 2007 as Belichick ever had
    as a Giants assistant. Spags went on to coach the Rams.


    - Including playoff games, Parcells was 85-52-1 with the Giants; Coughlin is
    82-57.




    It’s a tribute to Coughlin’s resiliency we can even put him anywhere near the
    same level as Parcells. There has been no in-between with Coughlin’s teams:
    They’ve either won the Super Bowl or been huge disappointments. He was nearly
    fired after the 2006 season and was given just a one-year extension after he
    basically had to re-interview for his job. He lightened up his approach with the
    players, they finally had his back, and then beat the undefeated Patriots in the
    Super Bowl, perhaps the second greatest Super Bowl upset in history following
    the Jets over the Colts in Super Bowl III.




    Full disclosure: I thought the Giants should fire Coughlin after the ’06
    season. He had lost the locker room, which is hard to overcome. And when the
    Giants lost three straight last season to drop to 6-5 after a 6-2 start, I wrote
    that if Coughlin didn’t make the playoffs, which would have continued a trend of
    second-half collapses, I thought it was time for him to go. The Giants lost
    another game, then won three of their last four, including the sweep of the
    Cowboys, and went on another Super Bowl run.




    Parcells, too, was almost fired by the Giants. After he was 3-12-1 in his
    first season, GM George Young flirted with the idea of hiring University of
    Miami coach Howard Schnellenberger — they had worked together with the Colts.
    Parcells lost both his parents that season and Young was not sure if the job was
    too big for him.




    Parcells walked away after winning his second Super Bowl. Coughlin is
    sticking around to go for his third. If he gets it, he will be the greatest
    coach in Giants history."

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

  • #2
    Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

    Can't we just say they are both great coaches?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

      You just did []
      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

        [quote user="RoanokeFan"]You just did []
        [/quote]

        Well can't argue with that logic []

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

          [quote user="NY_Eli"][quote user="RoanokeFan"]You just did []
          [/quote]

          Well can't argue with that logic [][/quote]

          Some will agree with you while others take either side. It could be an interesting debate. Since it was Parcells who said "you are what your numbers say you are", I guess if Coughlin wins another Super Bowl before he retires, he's king.
          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

            [quote user="RoanokeFan"][quote user="NY_Eli"][quote user="RoanokeFan"]You just did []
            [/quote]

            Well can't argue with that logic [][/quote]

            Some will agree with you while others take either side.* It could be an interesting debate.* Since it was Parcells who said "you are what your numbers say you are", I guess if Coughlin wins another Super Bowl before he retires, he's king.
            [/quote]

            I don't know, you could be the best coach in the world but if you don't have talented players and a good organization supporting you you can't win super bowls.

            If Parcells had Eli, would he have won more? If Coughlin had LT, would he win more? I'm not sure you can strictly judge a coach by super bowl victories. I think you have to look at the big picture of developing players and keeping a good mentality.

            Then again, I can't claim to know more than Parcells on the subject, so I guess I'll take his word for it []

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

              well, Parcells inherited a modern day version of the Cleveland Browns and turned it into a powerhouse.

              Coughlin took over and rebuilt an aged and broken down NFC contender team, and the culture was used to winning, as well as heartbreak.


              although Coughlin deserves credit for being winning every year in the salary cap era.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

                [quote user="NY_Eli"][quote user="RoanokeFan"][quote user="NY_Eli"][quote user="RoanokeFan"]You just did []
                [/quote]

                Well can't argue with that logic [][/quote]

                Some will agree with you while others take either side. It could be an interesting debate. Since it was Parcells who said "you are what your numbers say you are", I guess if Coughlin wins another Super Bowl before he retires, he's king.
                [/quote]

                I don't know, you could be the best coach in the world but if you don't have talented players and a good organization supporting you you can't win super bowls.

                If Parcells had Eli, would he have won more? If Coughlin had LT, would he win more? I'm not sure you can strictly judge a coach by super bowl victories. I think you have to look at the big picture of developing players and keeping a good mentality.

                Then again, I can't claim to know more than Parcells on the subject, so I guess I'll take his word for it [][/quote]

                Parcells legacy is sealed now that he's retired. Coughlin is still in the hunt, as it were. I think Parcels gets a knock for the way he left the GIANTS and by suggesting Ray Handley take his place.
                “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

                  Short version:

                  Parcells dominated and brought swagger back to a franchise whose best days were behind them.

                  Coughlin restored order and produced monumental upsets, and unlike Parcells he isn't abandoning the team like a rat.
                  8-Time NFL Champions - 1927 1934 1938 1956 1986 1990 2007 2011

                  "You win close games because you're prepared to do it. It doesn't just come down to luck." -- Bill Parcells

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

                    Both great coaches - no question, but best 'all around' has to go to Parcells. Between what he did with the Giants, the Jets, the Pats and GMing for the Dolphins, his accolades reach just a little higher.

                    But as far as what both did for the Giants - Parcells established the blueprint. Coaches who followed him like Reeves, Fassel and Coughlin carried it on. Reeves got us back on track after the 'Handley Era' and Fassel took us to SB 35, but Coughlin has outlasted and surpassed both those coaches with a style and discipline that kept this team together when at their most desperate

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

                      [quote user="CTLadyBlue"]Both great coaches - no question, but best 'all around' has to go to Parcells. Between what he did with the Giants, the Jets, the Pats and GMing for the Dolphins, his accolades reach just a little higher.

                      But as far as what both did for the Giants - Parcells established the blueprint. Coaches who followed him like Reeves, Fassel and Coughlin carried it on. Reeves got us back on track after the 'Handley Era' and Fassel took us to SB 35, but Coughlin has outlasted and surpassed both those coaches with a style and discipline that kept this team together when at their most desperate[/quote]

                      If you are going to take ALL of those other Parcells teams into account we need another thread. This is who is the greatest GIANTS coach. Coughlin gets a lot of kudos for his job at Jacksonville. Even the Jaguars' former owner has admitted he screwed up when he let Coughlin go.

                      But for this discussion, it's just what they did here that's at issue.
                      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

                        Just throwing it out there. I know it was way back in the day but Steve Owen can't be left out of the discussion if you asked me. He coached the team for 23 years. That's pretty much forever.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

                          I disagree with the "There has been no in-between with Coughlin’s teams: They’ve either won the Super Bowl or been huge disappointments." In 2008 we were by far the best team in football. I just watched the Steelers 08 America's Game and it still pisses me off because that was our year until Plax shot himself. 05 was a great division title with a young QB. 09 was a great 5-0 start until the shocking injuries to the D and the '10' team may have been a SB team if S.Smith didn't go down and we held on to that Eagle game. Point being we've been elite for more years during the TC era than the Parcell's era. TC's commitment to our Franchise give's him an edge as well

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

                            [quote user="g_menfan80"]I disagree with the "There has been no in-between with Coughlin’s teams: They’ve either won the Super Bowl or been huge disappointments." In 2008 we were by far the best team in football. I just watched the Steelers 08 America's Game and it still pisses me off because that was our year until Plax shot himself. 05 was a great division title with a young QB. 09 was a great 5-0 start until the shocking injuries to the D and the '10' team may have been a SB team if S.Smith didn't go down and we held on to that Eagle game. Point being we've been elite for more years during the TC era than the Parcell's era. TC's commitment to our Franchise give's him an edge as well[/quote]

                            You have to give credit to the fact there hasn't been a losing season under TC.
                            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: BILL PARCELLS VS. TOM COUGHLIN: WHEN IT COMES TO THE BEST COACH IN GIANTS' HISTORY, START THE DEBATE

                              [quote user="WR4Life"]Just throwing it out there. I know it was way back in the day but Steve Owen can't be left out of the discussion if you asked me. He coached the team for 23 years. That's pretty much forever.[/quote]

                              This. The Giants won their first championship with him as a player (he was a player-coach) and under his tenure as strictly coach they won two more and appeared in 7 more championship games.

                              Wellington always spoke reverently of him and that should be good enough for any of us.

                              However, I am all for keeping it to the modern era for this discussion.
                              8-Time NFL Champions - 1927 1934 1938 1956 1986 1990 2007 2011

                              "You win close games because you're prepared to do it. It doesn't just come down to luck." -- Bill Parcells

                              Comment

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