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  • #31
    Originally posted by Flip Empty View Post
    After the limited glimpses we've had of Wilson, does anyone still long for Doug Martin?
    Well I can honestly say I never wanted Doug Martin. Wilson was my choice from day one as I knew we wouldn't trade up for Trent Richardson.

    Glad to hear Wilson may be getting more touches soon. I believe we should go with the three headed monster approach from 08, in which bradshaw starts and gets most carries. Brown in for short yardage situations and 3rd downs, and wilson late in games to utilize his speed advantage against tired defenses, as well as screens to give him space in the open field.

    But until Wilson can be counted on to block edge rushers and blitzing LB's this will not happen. The rook has to show he can consistently provide Eli with protection to get more playing time.

    I believe he has he ability to do so, and I am not worried. Wilson will shine in time.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by bg79 View Post
      Theres a difference between a player not being a good blocker or RB and a player who hasnt been given the opportunity to showcase if he is or not. Wilson took a run to the house (like he did during preseason) and that still didnt warrant him to receive another carry after it. It has to be frustrating and disheartening for the premise to be put in place that his lack of opportunities stems from a fumble in game 1 and that he needed to work into good graces. Meanwhile the #1 RB prior to this game was performing horribly all season and then starts the game off with a fumble yet Coughlin goes right back to him. It's almost like the rules don't apply to everyone and even though Wilson was tearing it up with the kick returns he wasnt given any other opportunities due to one simple mistake in his first game.

      It's this kind of over the top conservative philosophy with rookies that makes me think that Coughlin wouldnt even be playing a rookie Adrian Peterson if we had him. If you're going to make a huge stink over the fumble like he did you need to apply that fairly to others especially those who were not performing up to the standards. It's funny though, TC sticks with the guy who fumbles and that guy gets a 200 yard game. Makes you wonder what Wilson couldve done had he been stuck with and not bailed out on.

      He has been given opportunities and he's the best kick returner we've had in a very long time. He has also fumbled the ball and dropped a pass. As for his run, against the Browns, I suspect the fact that he went through untouched made it easier than most 40 yard run. That's not to diminish the resulting TD.

      How much time do you devote to watching Wilson at practice or in meetings?
      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by CowboysSuck View Post
        Coughlin on WFAN, when asked about Wilson's role in the offense said he is (quote) "very close to earning a larger, more consistent role on offense"

        Gee, its about time, ya think? Anyone still want to argue that Wilson deserves only 2 carries a game? please, be my guest

        Also, this honestly still gives me limited hope that Wilson will see more than 4 or 5 touches. "very close" to Coughlin is pretty much like telling the media "yeah he will play eventually, stop pestering me" stubborn stubborn
        TC said we would start seeing more of him week 6 at the beginning of the season.
        Last edited by dezzzR; 10-09-2012, 12:47 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by bg79 View Post
          Theres a difference between a player not being a good blocker or RB and a player who hasnt been given the opportunity to showcase if he is or not. Wilson took a run to the house (like he did during preseason) and that still didnt warrant him to receive another carry after it. It has to be frustrating and disheartening for the premise to be put in place that his lack of opportunities stems from a fumble in game 1 and that he needed to work into good graces. Meanwhile the #1 RB prior to this game was performing horribly all season and then starts the game off with a fumble yet Coughlin goes right back to him. It's almost like the rules don't apply to everyone and even though Wilson was tearing it up with the kick returns he wasnt given any other opportunities due to one simple mistake in his first game.

          It's this kind of over the top conservative philosophy with rookies that makes me think that Coughlin wouldnt even be playing a rookie Adrian Peterson if we had him. If you're going to make a huge stink over the fumble like he did you need to apply that fairly to others especially those who were not performing up to the standards. It's funny though, TC sticks with the guy who fumbles and that guy gets a 200 yard game. Makes you wonder what Wilson couldve done had he been stuck with and not bailed out on.
          BG, you're looking at this the wrong way. Not having to start rookies is a luxury that deep teams are able to afford. It's a good thing. Think of the same scenario at the college level... Would you think it wise to start a freshman over a senior? Because, that's basically what you are asking.

          Coughlin sees his team practice day in and day out. It's not about a don't fumble rule (in fact, the whole "Coughlin's Doghouse" is completely overblown in my opinion), it's about being able be relied on to do your job. Wilson is still learning. Give him time. He is a first round draft choice so he will get a shot. And when he does, I have full confidence that he will make the most of it.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
            He has been given opportunities and he's the best kick returner we've had in a very long time. He has also fumbled the ball and dropped a pass. As for his run, against the Browns, I suspect the fact that he went through untouched made it easier than most 40 yard run. That's not to diminish the resulting TD.

            How much time do you devote to watching Wilson at practice or in meetings?
            Cmon, don't go there with the whole the coaches see the player more than we do therefor we have no right to question any judgement kind of crap. What were those coaches seeing in practices and meeting rooms that were keeping Victor Cruz from getting a bigger role till injury forced him finally into the lineup? If you're going to fall back on that you gotta be prepared that sometimes they just flat out don't make the right judgement calls and they didnt with Cruz in that regard, or hey even JPP took longer than I liked for him to get a significant role on the defense.

            The point of my previous post was that there were a different set of rules applied and that isnt a great message to send a player and could explain why some of the veterans tend to get soft here. Basically the way I see it right now is if you're a rookie or younger player you have to go to ridiculous levels to prove yourself and live up to unrealistic demands of mistake free football. However, once you've firmly entrenched yourself as a starter those rules don't apply. Fumbling, lack of effort, and just downright stinking don't seem to matter once you've already gotten the position. It could explain why Osi, Tuck, Diehl, and Bradshaw up until yesterdays game have flat out stunk this season. If Tom is going to be his legendary hardass self when it comes to certain things then he needs to apply that same standard to the whole team and not just play favorites with the vets.

            Other teams arent afraid to lean heavily on their rookies. Look at the browns using Richardson as basically their only playmaker. Something tells me that if he were a Giant he'd be relegated to a similar role that Wilson has as we'd be debating on whether he has the knowledge of the plays or blocking ability to be out there over Bradshaw. At some point in time you gotta just see what you have. Bradshaw had 30 carries last game for his 200 yards, was there really a need for him to have so many carries and us not get more of a look at Wilson or even Scott (if he was even dressed). The game was essentially over and we were still feeding Bradshaw carries, why not get a look especially after Wilson showed what he could do with his tiny amount of carries. It's just a source of frustration as a fan because we can all see the talent out of Wilson and know he can't utilize it when he isnt in the game, let the kid play!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by CowboysSuck View Post
              Coughlin on WFAN, when asked about Wilson's role in the offense said he is (quote) "very close to earning a larger, more consistent role on offense"

              Gee, its about time, ya think? Anyone still want to argue that Wilson deserves only 2 carries a game? please, be my guest

              Also, this honestly still gives me limited hope that Wilson will see more than 4 or 5 touches. "very close" to Coughlin is pretty much like telling the media "yeah he will play eventually, stop pestering me" stubborn stubborn
              i trust TCs decisions with Wilson. TC has taken the same approach with most rookies on his teams. he knows when they are ready!

              with the uncertainty of Brown this week Wilsons role will prolly be larger! the touchdown he scored Sunday could be the confidence builder he needs to break out!
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by CowboysSuck View Post
                Coughlin on WFAN, when asked about Wilson's role in the offense said he is (quote) "very close to earning a larger, more consistent role on offense"

                Gee, its about time, ya think? Anyone still want to argue that Wilson deserves only 2 carries a game? please, be my guest

                Also, this honestly still gives me limited hope that Wilson will see more than 4 or 5 touches. "very close" to Coughlin is pretty much like telling the media "yeah he will play eventually, stop pestering me" stubborn stubborn
                Even Tebow gets more carries than this guy

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by lamas View Post
                  BG, you're looking at this the wrong way. Not having to start rookies is a luxury that deep teams are able to afford. It's a good thing. Think of the same scenario at the college level... Would you think it wise to start a freshman over a senior? Because, that's basically what you are asking.

                  Coughlin sees his team practice day in and day out. It's not about a don't fumble rule (in fact, the whole "Coughlin's Doghouse" is completely overblown in my opinion), it's about being able be relied on to do your job. Wilson is still learning. Give him time. He is a first round draft choice so he will get a shot. And when he does, I have full confidence that he will make the most of it.
                  Maybe for the other positions but RB is almost universally regarded as the easiest one to make an impact on as a rookie. The period of time for a RB to be effective in the league is extremely short and we're doing our team a disservice by not milking those younger years of our RB's and instead letting them stew a few years before utilized to their full effectiveness. By then they're a bit slower and have racked up a few more injuries before getting used heavily. We saw it when it was just AB and BJ back there and it took basically a full season before AB was utilized more than BJ even though BJ was not running like he used to. I feel we wasted some additional production out of AB by waiting so long to use him and instead went with the more ineffective back.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by bg79 View Post
                    Cmon, don't go there with the whole the coaches see the player more than we do therefor we have no right to question any judgement kind of crap. What were those coaches seeing in practices and meeting rooms that were keeping Victor Cruz from getting a bigger role till injury forced him finally into the lineup? If you're going to fall back on that you gotta be prepared that sometimes they just flat out don't make the right judgement calls and they didnt with Cruz in that regard, or hey even JPP took longer than I liked for him to get a significant role on the defense.

                    The point of my previous post was that there were a different set of rules applied and that isnt a great message to send a player and could explain why some of the veterans tend to get soft here. Basically the way I see it right now is if you're a rookie or younger player you have to go to ridiculous levels to prove yourself and live up to unrealistic demands of mistake free football. However, once you've firmly entrenched yourself as a starter those rules don't apply. Fumbling, lack of effort, and just downright stinking don't seem to matter once you've already gotten the position. It could explain why Osi, Tuck, Diehl, and Bradshaw up until yesterdays game have flat out stunk this season. If Tom is going to be his legendary hardass self when it comes to certain things then he needs to apply that same standard to the whole team and not just play favorites with the vets.

                    Other teams arent afraid to lean heavily on their rookies. Look at the browns using Richardson as basically their only playmaker. Something tells me that if he were a Giant he'd be relegated to a similar role that Wilson has as we'd be debating on whether he has the knowledge of the plays or blocking ability to be out there over Bradshaw. At some point in time you gotta just see what you have. Bradshaw had 30 carries last game for his 200 yards, was there really a need for him to have so many carries and us not get more of a look at Wilson or even Scott (if he was even dressed). The game was essentially over and we were still feeding Bradshaw carries, why not get a look especially after Wilson showed what he could do with his tiny amount of carries. It's just a source of frustration as a fan because we can all see the talent out of Wilson and know he can't utilize it when he isnt in the game, let the kid play!
                    Whoa, they have to prove themselves to get playing time? Seriously?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      [QUOTE=yoeddy;525223]

                      - Gibril Wilson (starter)- Chris Snee (starter)-- Eli Manning (starter)
                      - Brandon Jacobs (significant role)-- Ahmad Bradshaw (significant role)
                      - Aaron Ross (significant role)-- Kevin Boss (significant role, starter after Shockey got hurt)
                      - Steve Smith (significant role)- - Kenny Philips (starter)

                      Your list had only 2 RB's Neither had a "significant role". Jacobs was goal line and short yardage almost exclusively. Bradshaw was #3 and didn't get a lot of play until after mid season. And then there is Eli. And Eli is just Eli. A whole other category.
                      # 80 (For FBomb)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by bg79 View Post
                        Cmon, don't go there with the whole the coaches see the player more than we do therefor we have no right to question any judgement kind of crap. What were those coaches seeing in practices and meeting rooms that were keeping Victor Cruz from getting a bigger role till injury forced him finally into the lineup? If you're going to fall back on that you gotta be prepared that sometimes they just flat out don't make the right judgement calls and they didnt with Cruz in that regard, or hey even JPP took longer than I liked for him to get a significant role on the defense.

                        The point of my previous post was that there were a different set of rules applied and that isnt a great message to send a player and could explain why some of the veterans tend to get soft here. Basically the way I see it right now is if you're a rookie or younger player you have to go to ridiculous levels to prove yourself and live up to unrealistic demands of mistake free football. However, once you've firmly entrenched yourself as a starter those rules don't apply. Fumbling, lack of effort, and just downright stinking don't seem to matter once you've already gotten the position. It could explain why Osi, Tuck, Diehl, and Bradshaw up until yesterdays game have flat out stunk this season. If Tom is going to be his legendary hardass self when it comes to certain things then he needs to apply that same standard to the whole team and not just play favorites with the vets.

                        Other teams arent afraid to lean heavily on their rookies. Look at the browns using Richardson as basically their only playmaker. Something tells me that if he were a Giant he'd be relegated to a similar role that Wilson has as we'd be debating on whether he has the knowledge of the plays or blocking ability to be out there over Bradshaw. At some point in time you gotta just see what you have. Bradshaw had 30 carries last game for his 200 yards, was there really a need for him to have so many carries and us not get more of a look at Wilson or even Scott (if he was even dressed). The game was essentially over and we were still feeding Bradshaw carries, why not get a look especially after Wilson showed what he could do with his tiny amount of carries. It's just a source of frustration as a fan because we can all see the talent out of Wilson and know he can't utilize it when he isnt in the game, let the kid play!

                        What rules are you talking about? TC has always had the "if you fumble the ball you are in the dog hose" rule.

                        Victor Cruz benefited fror Steve Smith's injury but he was also a unique case we don't often see.

                        Wilson may benefit from Andre Brown's injury if he can't play Sunday
                        Last edited by RoanokeFan; 10-09-2012, 07:30 PM.
                        “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          [QUOTE=GiantRoc;525286]
                          Originally posted by yoeddy View Post

                          - Gibril Wilson (starter)- Chris Snee (starter)-- Eli Manning (starter)
                          - Brandon Jacobs (significant role)-- Ahmad Bradshaw (significant role)
                          - Aaron Ross (significant role)-- Kevin Boss (significant role, starter after Shockey got hurt)
                          - Steve Smith (significant role)- - Kenny Philips (starter)

                          Your list had only 2 RB's Neither had a "significant role". Jacobs was goal line and short yardage almost exclusively. Bradshaw was #3 and didn't get a lot of play until after mid season. And then there is Eli. And Eli is just Eli. A whole other category.
                          How many HBs have we drafted since Coughlin has been here? BJ, Bradshaw, Andre Brown and Wilson....Andre Brown got injured in training camp and missed the season, and Wilson is still growing into his role. Not sure how many others you want me to list.

                          Goal-line and short yardage is not a significant role? I beg to differ...and usually that role goes to a veteran (see guys like Ottis Anderson, Marcus Allen, and other guys who are reliable to not lose the ball.

                          In any case, I have faith in TC and the coaching staff to prepare players to play...and to know when someone is ready to take on more responsibility or not.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            please.

                            more than anything Coughlin is protecting Eli.

                            it keeps happening, it keeps coming out in the media, even Brown said it in his post big game interview, and fans continue to be completely blind about it.

                            Prove that you can protect the QB, and you'll get more carries on this offense.

                            Brown was flat out asked the question about does he think he should get more playing time as a result of his big game and his answer started with "well, if you want to get on the field in my position you have to be able to protect your QB first so........."

                            i don't want RBs learning on the job given how important our QB is to the success of our offense.

                            I don't understand what the hellfire rush is. First it was giving the kid a chance, then it was we're not doing well with our current RBs, now we are having success running the ball and still all this heat about getting Wilson on the field.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
                              please.

                              more than anything Coughlin is protecting Eli.

                              it keeps happening, it keeps coming out in the media, even Brown said it in his post big game interview, and fans continue to be completely blind about it.

                              Prove that you can protect the QB, and you'll get more carries on this offense.

                              Brown was flat out asked the question about does he think he should get more playing time as a result of his big game and his answer started with "well, if you want to get on the field in my position you have to be able to protect your QB first so........."

                              i don't want RBs learning on the job given how important our QB is to the success of our offense.

                              I don't understand what the hellfire rush is. First it was giving the kid a chance, then it was we're not doing well with our current RBs, now we are having success running the ball and still all this heat about getting Wilson on the field.

                              +1
                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                No doubt DW will see the feild more... I think he is very lucky to see the feild period (considering TC's coaching style)... With that said TC must be pretty high on the kid to let him assume the return role so early... I think they are letting him larn and Ill bet we will see more of him later in the season... I think he will emerge down the stretch like AB did his 1st year... Last week against CLE was the best way to take advantage of the precious time you get!!!
                                Go Giants!!!

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