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How much credit should Mike Singletary get for the 49ers?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Six-Ace-Deuce View Post
    Mike Singletary wasn't even head coach for 2 full seasons.. Singletary was AGAINST drafting Patrick Willis, if that helps put his contributions in perspective.

    The current core of the Niners were built by Mike Nolan, he originally wanted to establish a power-run offense and dominating defensive squad.. with hits and misses he built the team, he was actually a better GM than head coach. Singletary didn't bring in anybody as head coach, Niners' GM then VP of Personnel, Trent Baalke drafted RT Anthony Davis, LG Mike Iupati, and All-Pro ILB NoVarro Bowman.. Singletary INSISTED the Niners draft Taylor Mays, who is now languishing in Cincy.

    Harbaugh didn't have to bring in much, the pieces were already there.. they just needed coaching. Harbaugh didn't build his team from scratch, but it was Harbaugh that convinced Alex Smith to stay.. if you credit Singletary, you have to give more credit to Mike Nolan, but the guy that has been scouting and helping making decisions on the draft and free agents is Trent Baalke, reigning NFL Executive of the Year.
    It doesn't matter who wanted to draft Willis. Singletary molded him at MLB, you can bet your bottom dollar on that one. Singletary's handprint is all over that defense. To say different is to ignore reality. Singletary's fatal flaw is that he was too conservative on offense. Harbaugh may not have brought in more pieces of the puzzle but he stepped up the offensive game planning and play calling tremendously.
    Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

    Comment


    • #17
      I think Harbaugh helped customize the offense around what Alex Smith does well.
      Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

      http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
        It doesn't matter who wanted to draft Willis. Singletary molded him at MLB, you can bet your bottom dollar on that one. Singletary's handprint is all over that defense. To say different is to ignore reality. Singletary's fatal flaw is that he was too conservative on offense. Harbaugh may not have brought in more pieces of the puzzle but he stepped up the offensive game planning and play calling tremendously.
        Patrick Willis was a BEAST in college, kind of the reason why the Niners drafted him with the 11th pick in the draft. According to the PLAYERS, Singletary did not teach techique, he taught his LBs to have the right mind set to play the position. I don't think Patrick Willis need anymore motivation or getting the right mindset after the hell is childhood was. Singletary didn't mold Willis, tragedy and ultimate triumph did that.. you give Singletary WAY too much credit. Other than Willis, who did he mold? Not Takeo Spikes.. NaVorro Bowman? No, Bowman was lost his season under Singletary.. he was an ALL-PRO the season after Singletary left.

        Why would you think Singletary's handprints are all over the defense.. Singletary doesn't know any Xs and Os.. he didn't call one play, he didn't draw up any either. Greg Manusky was hired under Mike Nolan to run the defense, he was Singletary's defensive coordinator his entire time there.. if you want to give anybody credit, it's Nolan, if not Nolan then Manusky. Most coaches have formations or strategies posted on the walls of their office or classrooms.. Singletary had slogans. Singletary didn't believe in 'trying to trick anybody'.. Singletary didn't believe that a great scheme or plan won football games, he thought that whoever had the stronger will would win the game.. no technique or strategy.. just will.. how many games are won on sheer will?

        The ONLY guy Singletary ever campaigned to draft and start on defense was Taylor Mays, he didn't even last the whole season as a starter. All of the other defensive starters were brought in under Nolan, Singletary basically had Nolan's team. Singletary fought to start Mays, he lasted 4 or 5 games.. Singletary fought to have RG Chilo Rachal start.. he's currently a Chicago Bear.

        Mike Singletary was the worst coach in Niners' history.. and it isn't even close. It makes me CRINGE at the level of incompetence that he demonstrated.. his monday press conferences became MUST SEE events, because he couldn't tell you what went wrong, because he doesn't understand the Xs and Os and didn't understand everything he just saw on the field.. and to hear him try to BS his way out of things. My favorite was when he tried to convince everyone of his idiotic run-run-run-punt offense was, to paraphrase:"Don't you think Payton Manning would rather hand the ball off than have to throw the ball?" After you hear something like that, I just lost all respect for the guy. In 2010, in a game at KC, Singletary's offense was SO predicatable, the defense was CORRECTLY calling out the plays based on formation and personnel group.. it was a massacre.

        I can't ignore the reality, I lived it in horror with every other Niners' fan. It's really insulting to hear ANYBODY give Mike Singletary ANY credit for the Niners' current success. I will give Singletary props for straightening out Vernon Davis, he was another T.O. ready to explode til Singletary got him in check, Vernon Davis is still full of himself, but he's a team player.. and that's what counts.

        Singletary should stick to position coaching and make a living there, he'd never be a defensive coordinator, because he doesn't know Xs and Os.. he can't be a head coach because he can't help either the offensive or defensive coordiantor.. because he doesn't know how to scheme or draw up plays.. half the time he didn't even wear a headset, what was he going to say? How can you overrule somebody on a playcall when you don't understand the plays? Singletary was a disaster.. he robbed the fans of two seasons with his BS and probably shaved a couple years of the fans' lives w/ his maddening reasoning and PURELY idiotic ideas.

        I don't know if you can tell, but this is a SORE subject for most Niners' die-hard fans.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
          I think Harbaugh helped customize the offense around what Alex Smith does well.
          The offense that Jim Harbaugh ran at Stanford with Andrew Luck is IDENTICIAL to the one he's running in San Francisco with Alex Smith.. Harbaugh's offense in college and pros are built on a power running game w/ the playaction pass.. that has not changed. At Stanford, Harbaugh's team ran the ball more in Luck's first two seasons than they passed, but even in Luck's most pass-happy season, Stanford run/pass was 50/50.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Six-Ace-Deuce View Post
            Patrick Willis was a BEAST in college, kind of the reason why the Niners drafted him with the 11th pick in the draft. According to the PLAYERS, Singletary did not teach techique, he taught his LBs to have the right mind set to play the position. I don't think Patrick Willis need anymore motivation or getting the right mindset after the hell is childhood was. Singletary didn't mold Willis, tragedy and ultimate triumph did that.. you give Singletary WAY too much credit. Other than Willis, who did he mold? Not Takeo Spikes.. NaVorro Bowman? No, Bowman was lost his season under Singletary.. he was an ALL-PRO the season after Singletary left.

            Why would you think Singletary's handprints are all over the defense.. Singletary doesn't know any Xs and Os.. he didn't call one play, he didn't draw up any either. Greg Manusky was hired under Mike Nolan to run the defense, he was Singletary's defensive coordinator his entire time there.. if you want to give anybody credit, it's Nolan, if not Nolan then Manusky. Most coaches have formations or strategies posted on the walls of their office or classrooms.. Singletary had slogans. Singletary didn't believe in 'trying to trick anybody'.. Singletary didn't believe that a great scheme or plan won football games, he thought that whoever had the stronger will would win the game.. no technique or strategy.. just will.. how many games are won on sheer will?

            The ONLY guy Singletary ever campaigned to draft and start on defense was Taylor Mays, he didn't even last the whole season as a starter. All of the other defensive starters were brought in under Nolan, Singletary basically had Nolan's team. Singletary fought to start Mays, he lasted 4 or 5 games.. Singletary fought to have RG Chilo Rachal start.. he's currently a Chicago Bear.

            Mike Singletary was the worst coach in Niners' history.. and it isn't even close. It makes me CRINGE at the level of incompetence that he demonstrated.. his monday press conferences became MUST SEE events, because he couldn't tell you what went wrong, because he doesn't understand the Xs and Os and didn't understand everything he just saw on the field.. and to hear him try to BS his way out of things. My favorite was when he tried to convince everyone of his idiotic run-run-run-punt offense was, to paraphrase:"Don't you think Payton Manning would rather hand the ball off than have to throw the ball?" After you hear something like that, I just lost all respect for the guy. In 2010, in a game at KC, Singletary's offense was SO predicatable, the defense was CORRECTLY calling out the plays based on formation and personnel group.. it was a massacre.

            I can't ignore the reality, I lived it in horror with every other Niners' fan. It's really insulting to hear ANYBODY give Mike Singletary ANY credit for the Niners' current success. I will give Singletary props for straightening out Vernon Davis, he was another T.O. ready to explode til Singletary got him in check, Vernon Davis is still full of himself, but he's a team player.. and that's what counts.

            Singletary should stick to position coaching and make a living there, he'd never be a defensive coordinator, because he doesn't know Xs and Os.. he can't be a head coach because he can't help either the offensive or defensive coordiantor.. because he doesn't know how to scheme or draw up plays.. half the time he didn't even wear a headset, what was he going to say? How can you overrule somebody on a playcall when you don't understand the plays? Singletary was a disaster.. he robbed the fans of two seasons with his BS and probably shaved a couple years of the fans' lives w/ his maddening reasoning and PURELY idiotic ideas.

            I don't know if you can tell, but this is a SORE subject for most Niners' die-hard fans.
            Pat Willis was drafted to play MLB if you don't think that one of the greatest MLB of all time was helpful in him mastering the position your showing off your bias. What your daying doens't jive. Mike Singeltary would be the first All-pro MLB that didn't know X's and O's. There is no MLB that was that good that doesn't know X's and O's. I don't care what Willis did in college the pro game is different.

            Your talking as if you were in the huddles and were at the practices- you were not. I like the Giants but I couldn't give you credible info on how any of them were trained or learned their positions b/c I was not on the team. It's no coincidence that Niners style of D resempled Singletary's style of play.
            Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

            http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Six-Ace-Deuce View Post
              The offense that Jim Harbaugh ran at Stanford with Andrew Luck is IDENTICIAL to the one he's running in San Francisco with Alex Smith.. Harbaugh's offense in college and pros are built on a power running game w/ the playaction pass.. that has not changed. At Stanford, Harbaugh's team ran the ball more in Luck's first two seasons than they passed, but even in Luck's most pass-happy season, Stanford run/pass was 50/50.
              Okay, but this type of simplistic offense plays to Smith's strengths. He struggles to get the ball to receivers down the field on deep routes. KG's offense with the Giants would be a bad fit for Smith.
              Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

              http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Six-Ace-Deuce View Post
                How do you figure Singletary's imprint in on the defense? He never called a SINGLE play.. the LBs admitted that Singletary really didn't teach technique, he taught having the 'right' attitude. The Niners have had a pretty good defense since Nolan was head coach, they've been really talented for a long time.. they didn't become 'elite' until Vic Fangio became defensive coordinator. Case in point, NaVorro Bowman back-up Takeo Spikes and was basically lost.. next season, Harbaugh is head coach.. goes one season lost.. next season he's an All-Pro, that's pretty stark. Singletary is a professional motivational speaker, it's what he did after playing and STILL does as a NFL coach.. but the words become hollow when the players realize he doesn't know anything about helping them win.
                i would think that as having an imprint!
                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                  Pat Willis was drafted to play MLB if you don't think that one of the greatest MLB of all time was helpful in him mastering the position your showing off your bias. What your daying doens't jive. Mike Singeltary would be the first All-pro MLB that didn't know X's and O's. There is no MLB that was that good that doesn't know X's and O's. I don't care what Willis did in college the pro game is different.

                  Your talking as if you were in the huddles and were at the practices- you were not. I like the Giants but I couldn't give you credible info on how any of them were trained or learned their positions b/c I was not on the team. It's no coincidence that Niners style of D resempled Singletary's style of play.
                  Actually Patrick Willis play ILB, more specifically Buck LineBacker. Was I in the huddles or practices.. no, where did my information come from.. people that were in the practices and in the huddles. Patrick Willis not learning technique from Mike Singletary was said by.. guess who.. Patrick Willis! If possible, go on youtube and look up Patrick Willis at Ole Miss, Eli's alma mater.. you can't teach 4.3 speed, you can't teach strength and you can't teach power.. he walked onto the field his first day with all that. Willis was a tackling machine in college.. he's a tackling machine in the pros, tackling in college and tackling in the pros seems like the same thing to me.

                  If you think the Niners 'style' of defense resembles Singletary's style of play.. that's your opinion, you are entitled to it. I KNOW you are wrong because I am a die-hard fan in the truest since of the word, that seeks and soaks up every piece of information on the Niners.. I make it my business to know as much as possible, if that means anything.

                  Singletary was an All-Pro and Hall of Fame L'backer, if you say our defense plays like a bunch of All-Pros, I'll take that as a compliment.. but what you think Mike Singletary did for the Niners has been overblown by the national mediots. Singletary as a MLB doesn't need to know Xs and Os, but if you are the head coach.. seems like you'd make it your business to know what's going on so if one of your coordinator calls a formation or play, you actually know what's going on. I think the players would appreciate it if the head coach could come to them and say a certain play will work and explain why.. instead of a guy yelling at them and trying to convince them that playing harder will win, instead of re-thinking the strategy or coming up with something that doesn't telegraph the play to the other side.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BigBlue1971 View Post
                    i would think that as having an imprint!
                    Opposed to what, the wrong attitude? Singletary taught that to Patrick Willis and the LBs.. how does that filter to the rest of the team? Willis is the only starter who still a Niners when Singletary was the LB coach. Speeches and peep talks only go so far, executing proper technique is why Ray Lewis is still effective in his 16 season, that's the difference between a 16 year career and a guy who's undisciplined with tons of talent.

                    Mike Singletary.. GREAT Middle L'backer, terrible head coach. Don't believe everything you read in the national media.. alot of what they put out there is rarely accurate, you have to look for and read the local guys to get a true feel for what's going on. I wish I could give you guys links to the articles about Singletary's incompetence as a head coach. I know you guys don't know me, and I have little credibility here.. but TRUST ME.. Singletary was a NIGHTMARE!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Six-Ace-Deuce View Post
                      Actually Patrick Willis play ILB, more specifically Buck LineBacker. Was I in the huddles or practices.. no, where did my information come from.. people that were in the practices and in the huddles. Patrick Willis not learning technique from Mike Singletary was said by.. guess who.. Patrick Willis! If possible, go on youtube and look up Patrick Willis at Ole Miss, Eli's alma mater.. you can't teach 4.3 speed, you can't teach strength and you can't teach power.. he walked onto the field his first day with all that. Willis was a tackling machine in college.. he's a tackling machine in the pros, tackling in college and tackling in the pros seems like the same thing to me.

                      If you think the Niners 'style' of defense resembles Singletary's style of play.. that's your opinion, you are entitled to it. I KNOW you are wrong because I am a die-hard fan in the truest since of the word, that seeks and soaks up every piece of information on the Niners.. I make it my business to know as much as possible, if that means anything.

                      Singletary was an All-Pro and Hall of Fame L'backer, if you say our defense plays like a bunch of All-Pros, I'll take that as a compliment.. but what you think Mike Singletary did for the Niners has been overblown by the national mediots. Singletary as a MLB doesn't need to know Xs and Os, but if you are the head coach.. seems like you'd make it your business to know what's going on so if one of your coordinator calls a formation or play, you actually know what's going on. I think the players would appreciate it if the head coach could come to them and say a certain play will work and explain why.. instead of a guy yelling at them and trying to convince them that playing harder will win, instead of re-thinking the strategy or coming up with something that doesn't telegraph the play to the other side.
                      I'm saying your defense play's with the same tenacity as Mike when he played. They are known as one of the most physical defenses in the league. Teams a lot of times embody the spirit of thier coahch with their play. It just seems like more than a coincidence that Mike was a tough hard nose MLB that imposed his will on the other team and his defense turns out to play in the same manner. Mike new X's and O's PERIOD. Whether or not he was able to teach X's and O's is a different story. If your a defensive coach you usually have nuanced knowledge about the defense and you hire an offensive coordinator that knows the job. Head coaching has a lot of responsibilities. You have to be able to delegate. Look I get it. Your team wasn't playing well and you need a scapegoat, but Mike knows the game and understands defense like few people ever will. Maybe you should watch some old Chicago tapes. See a MUST for any good ILB or MLB is film study which leads to great play diagnosis. MLB is the QB of the defense. To say Mike, a former MLB, didn't understand X's and O's is ludicrous.
                      Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                      http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                        Pat Willis was drafted to play MLB if you don't think that one of the greatest MLB of all time was helpful in him mastering the position your showing off your bias. What your daying doens't jive. Mike Singeltary would be the first All-pro MLB that didn't know X's and O's. There is no MLB that was that good that doesn't know X's and O's. I don't care what Willis did in college the pro game is different.

                        Your talking as if you were in the huddles and were at the practices- you were not. I like the Giants but I couldn't give you credible info on how any of them were trained or learned their positions b/c I was not on the team. It's no coincidence that Niners style of D resempled Singletary's style of play.
                        Alright, I don't know much about the subject, but no team defense has ever been able to resemble the bears during buddy ryan's days as defensive coordinator there. Singletary and the teams he was in charge of in San Francisco did not run a 46, and his middle linebacker was not asked to do what he did during his years with the bears.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                          To say Mike, a former MLB, didn't understand X's and O's is ludicrous.
                          That's why hiring Mike Singletary was a mistake, he didn't know Xs and Os.. and if you don't believe me you can do your own research, why don't you go to any Niners' board and pose that question: "Did Mike Singletary know Xs and Os".. they'll all tell you NO! That's the joke in the Niners' tragedy.. the head coach didn't know the Xs and Os! The fact Mike Singletary didn't have any type of head coaching experience or even coordinator experience prior to being hired was a joke! Singletary being named head coach was a PR move as it was a dumb football move! Trust me, the Niners' top brass has made TONS of mistakes since firing Mariucci, they've gotten their stuff together and turned it around. Ask around my friend, you are dead WRONG if you think Singletary knew anything, he truly didn't.. this is documented in many news stories.. I'm sure if you googled it, you'd find your answer.

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                          • #28
                            FOR PETE'S SAKE.. when the offense or defense was getting whipped, like most coaches he'd take a timeout.. unfortunately, instead of strategizing a play or formulating a scheme to take advantage of what the defense was doing.. Mike Singletary was giving inspirational speeches! This has been documented. Singletary is probably a great motivational speaker, horrible head coach.. mediocre position coach.. he don't teach technique, just inspirational words!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I get it, you guys wish Singletary was the head coach for sunday's game.. fortunately for all Niners' fans.. and unfortunately for gints' fans.. he's not.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Six-Ace-Deuce View Post
                                FOR PETE'S SAKE.. when the offense or defense was getting whipped, like most coaches he'd take a timeout.. unfortunately, instead of strategizing a play or formulating a scheme to take advantage of what the defense was doing.. Mike Singletary was giving inspirational speeches! This has been documented. Singletary is probably a great motivational speaker, horrible head coach.. mediocre position coach.. he don't teach technique, just inspirational words!
                                I knew more about Singletary as a player than a coach but what I did see was his mishandling of the media and how he tried to come in like gangbusters as a disciplinarian. I don't think he had the charisma to lead a team and seemed to think his experience as a player was enough to succeed.

                                Harbaugh was pretty successful as a quarterback, one time holding the nickname Captain Comeback. He may not have been the best but he was definitely a tough one and used to take beatings on a regular in Chicago and Indy....even more so than Jeff George.

                                While I think he is arrogant, I definitely think he was the right guy for Alex Smith. He turned him into a Trent Dilfer style quarterback, who manages the game but is not one who is relied upon to win the game.

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