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rebuilding the defense for 2012

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  • #31
    Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

    [quote user="NYG_88"][quote user="Kase-1"][quote user="nygfan0816"][quote user="NYG_88"]

    Do you think Jags keep Mel Tucker, I mean the*Jags D is in the top 10 but injuries caught up to them.




    What about Rolle? Keep him, trade him, or cut him?




    The Giants in a 3-4 D would be kind of interesting to see that but I have always seen them as a 4-3 but maybe change is for the better.

    [/quote]
    i think mel tucker would be a good option, idk who we could hire as d coordinator.

    i say we keep rolle and play him at safety, these 2 yrs under fewell hes played way too much corner, thats not his strength. he needs to play back with kp, he can also move in the box to help with run d and cover TEs and RBs, he shouldnt play nickle corner, hes terrible at it.[/quote]FINALLY someone talking some sense about Rolle
    [/quote]

    Yeah everybody here knows Rolle is a better safety than a corner thats why the Cards moved him to that position.[/quote]

    Rolle sucks at safety also. He gets no excuses for being bad.

    As for a 3-4 defense, I've been saying this forever on this board.

    JPP CAN play DE in a 3-4, he is big enough. Canty used to play 3-4 DE for the Cowboys, and was very good at it when we picked him up infact.

    Osi could definitely make the transition to OLB, as he is a small 4-3 end, and would mainly be the pass rushing specialist (similar to Ware). He has the quickest step of all our DEs currently, including JPP who is more powerful. Tuck would be the odd man out on the transition.

    Boley and Kiwi are adequate blitzers, however we are severely lacking at MLB. We also do not have a true NT, and Joseph could not fil that roll.

    Safeties: Phillips, New Safety
    Corners: Webster,Thomas
    Linebackers: Osi,Boley,New MLB,Kiwi
    Line: JPP,New NT,Canty

    Our LB in coverage would be our biggest concern.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

      In order to run a 3-4 you need 2 things, a STUD NT and LBers... we have neither.
      "Once a Giant, ALWAYS, a Giant."

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

        Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh

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        • #34
          Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

          [quote user="slipknottin"]Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh[/quote]

          lol
          "Once a Giant, ALWAYS, a Giant."

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

            Completely switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 for next season will be impossible. I do not think that we have the personnel to run a 3-4 for the entire 4 quarters. However, I would not be against running multiple fronts. I don't understand why more teams in the league don't do this.

            I also think this D would be pretty stout with some 46 looks. I think Rolle would excel, and our corners would flourish in man coverage.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

              [quote user="slipknottin"]Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh[/quote]

              Teams make successful transitions to 3-4 defenses all the time.

              Look at the Jets. Look at Houston. Look at the Redskins.

              I agree, we'd need a few free agent pick ups and drafts, but it's not some crazy pipe dream like you are trying to make it seem. We have some pieces that can be moved to different positions and still be effective.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                [quote user="VBGiantsFan"][quote user="slipknottin"]Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh[/quote]

                Teams make successful transitions to 3-4 defenses all the time.

                Look at the Jets. Look at Houston. Look at the Redskins.

                I agree, we'd need a few free agent pick ups and drafts, but it's not some crazy pipe dream like you are trying to make it seem. We have some pieces that can be moved to different positions and still be effective.[/quote]

                And the teams that do it have a reason to do it.

                Redskins for instance had orakpo who was not a good fit as a 4-3 LB or a 4-3 De.

                Texans switched because they had a lot of linebacker talent.

                The giants would switch why? Their best players are ideally suited as 4-3 DEs.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                  [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="VBGiantsFan"][quote user="slipknottin"]Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh[/quote]

                  Teams make successful transitions to 3-4 defenses all the time.

                  Look at the Jets. Look at Houston. Look at the Redskins.

                  I agree, we'd need a few free agent pick ups and drafts, but it's not some crazy pipe dream like you are trying to make it seem. We have some pieces that can be moved to different positions and still be effective.[/quote]

                  And the teams that do it have a reason to do it.

                  Redskins for instance had orakpo who was not a good fit as a 4-3 LB or a 4-3 De.

                  Texans switched because they had a lot of linebacker talent.

                  The giants would switch why? Their best players are ideally suited as 4-3 DEs.[/quote]

                  Well, I agree and disagree with you:

                  A 3-4 defense would make Tuck, Joseph, and probably Austin obselete along the line.

                  JPP is big enough to be a DE in a 3-4 and Canty was originally a 3-4 end.

                  Osi would be a wildcard. He has the same size as guys like Ware and Orakpo, but there really is not tell how good he would be as an OLB until he's actually playing it. I think he'd be great, but I guess that's an unknown.

                  Boley's and Kiwi's position wouldn't change that drastically. What may happen is Kiwi could become obsolete and J Williams put at his position since he has similar size and speed, but is better in coverage as well.

                  Either way, I agree it would be an interesting transition, but a lot of our great players could still be effective. Tuck and possibly Kiwi are the only guys we'd probably have no place for.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                    Osi isn't switching to a new scheme at this point in his career, he would just ask for a trade.

                    JPP is a beast as a 4-3 end, you want to move him inside and ask him to just tie up blockers?

                    Why you would want tuck to be obsolete just so you can move Canty back to 3-4 end I have no idea, but it has to rank up there as worst decisions possible.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012



                      Some of this might be wishful thinking....I'll admit I don't know the contract status of these players, so this is thinking out loud.




                      But, if possible,I think the front office needs to make moves that exclude the following players from the equation.




                      Tuck (too injury prone, possibly past prime)




                      Osi (same)




                      Bradshaw (same)




                      Jacobs (age, past-peak)




                      Diehl (age, past-peak)




                      Canty (cost)




                      Bernard (cost)




                      Rolle (cost, chemistry,overrated)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                        transitioning to a 3-4 wouldn't be that difficult. we have the pieces.

                        kiwi would be great as an OLB in the 3-4, great pass rusher, decent coverage skills.
                        move jpp to OLB, worked wonders for mario williams b4 he got hurt
                        tuck is big enuff to play DE in a 3-4 and canty play DE in a 3-4 in dallas.
                        linval is a 300 lb wrecking ball, i think hed be a good NT.
                        boley could move to MLB in a 3-4 along with herzlich who is gonna be very good, i think he played in a 3-4 at BC?

                        only problem i see is depth at LB.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                          JPP is our best player on defense and if you ask me he will be the best DE in the league in a couple years. Hes not a 3-4 end. Hes a play maker making him a 3-4 DE you take away a lot of his play making ability. 3-4 ends need to take up blockers jpp should'nt be doing that. Reason most teams switch to 3-4 is because its hard to find pass rushing ends.

                          A switch to lb is not a good idea either. First hes very big for a lb. His power is one of his best strength. His 2nd best strength is his first step. Olb speed is most inportant. His best spot is 4-3 end.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                            [quote user="slipknottin"]Osi isn't switching to a new scheme at this point in his career, he would just ask for a trade.

                            JPP is a beast as a 4-3 end, you want to move him inside and ask him to just tie up blockers?

                            Why you would want tuck to be obsolete just so you can move Canty back to 3-4 end I have no idea, but it has to rank up there as worst decisions possible.[/quote]

                            Hate to break it to you, but Tuck isn't exactly tearing it up this season. Canty has been much more valuable to us. Tuck is getting injured a lot, and that may not change.

                            Rarely do we have Tuck, Osi, and JPP on the field together at the same time. In fact, when they are all healthy we usually rotate them.

                            Osi moving to OLB would significantly lessen the wear and tear on his body every play. In fact, he'd probably be able to play the whole game.

                            JPP would still have a chance to get after the QB, it is not as drastic as you make it sound. He is also very good against the run, something very important at that position.

                            It's pretty obvious what we have right now isn't working...I'm not against trying something new and seeing where it goes.

                            A new defensive cooridinator would be a start before a different scheme.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                              [quote user="fewellmustgo"]JPP is our best player on defense and if you ask me he will be the best DE in the league in a couple years. Hes not a 3-4 end. Hes a play maker making him a 3-4 DE you take away a lot of his play making ability. 3-4 ends need to take up blockers jpp should'nt be doing that. Reason most teams switch to 3-4 is because its hard to find pass rushing ends.

                              A switch to lb is not a good idea either. First hes very big for a lb. His power is one of his best strength. His 2nd best strength is his first step. Olb speed is most inportant. His best spot is 4-3 end.
                              [/quote]

                              I do agree JPP is better suited for a 4-3, BUT I still think he would be effective in a 3-4.

                              Also, maybe the transition doesn't need to be drastic, but instead, we could get a coordinator who could run a hybrid defense.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                                Canty more valuable than Tuck?

                                Tuck has been a top 5 Dae in the league the last three seasons, amazing how quickly people want to throw someone away, especially when he's injured.

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