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rebuilding the defense for 2012

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  • #46
    Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

    [quote user="VBGiantsFan"][quote user="fewellmustgo"]JPP is our best player on defense and if you ask me he will be the best DE in the league in a couple years. Hes not a 3-4 end. Hes a play maker making him a 3-4 DE you take away a lot of his play making ability. 3-4 ends need to take up blockers jpp should'nt be doing that. Reason most teams switch to 3-4 is because its hard to find pass rushing ends.

    A switch to lb is not a good idea either. First hes very big for a lb. His power is one of his best strength. His 2nd best strength is his first step. Olb speed is most inportant. His best spot is 4-3 end.
    [/quote]

    I do agree JPP is better suited for a 4-3, BUT I still think he would be effective in a 3-4.

    Also, maybe the transition doesn't need to be drastic, but instead, we could get a coordinator who could run a hybrid defense.[/quote]

    See I want a DC to take our best player and build the defense around what he does best. Thats the best way to run a defense imo.

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    • #47
      Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

      [quote user="BJDaBeast"]I like the 3-4 look also but we need a NT to make it work.

      RDE: Linval Joseph
      NT: Draft/FA
      LDE: Marvin Austin
      OLB: Kiwi and JPP
      ILB: Herlizch, Draft/FA... Williams/Jones are not ready

      Bottom line is the Giants need to get faster on defense, Draft speedy DB's and big fast physical LB's and let a 3-4 coach run the show.
      '
      Get xtra draft picks by trading Rolle, Canty, Tuck and Osi.[/quote]wow that would be an awful defensive line..

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      • #48
        Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

        JPP would be awesome as an OLB in a 3-4. Use him like Ware and blitz him from all over the line all game, have him drop in to coverage only a few times. We'd have Kiwi opposite of JPP who can play coverage well for a big guy. Canty would be back at his natural position at 3-4 DE (rather see him cut though with that contract). Have Linval be the NT and Tuck at the other DE spot. Boley and Herzlich/Jones would be at MLB.Wouldn't like to see this actually happen but Id gladly do it in Madden!

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        • #49
          Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

          Ware is a better olb then JPP would be. You can move JPP all over the line as a de. He dont have the top end speed Ware has. What JPP has is strength and a first step thats off the charts. Both things are made for a 4-3 end. When you have a player like JPP use his strengths to his best then build the rest of the defense around him. I think hes that good.

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          • #50
            Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

            [quote user="nygfan0816"][quote user="midnite_nj"]Doesnt a 3-4 mean that your linebackers are your strong suit?* They have to be good at blitzing, covering, tackling, reading and recognizing pass or run.* Name one linebacker on our squad that can do all of the above.* We are a 4-3 team.* Get over it.* We dont have the personel for that scheme.* Our d line will continue to be our strong suit even though JPP is the only warrior we have.[/quote]
            boley and herzlich as MLBs could do all that. boley is a very good, fast LB and herzlich is gonna a good LB hes smart, great tackler and is good on a blitz.
            kiwi is a 3-4 player, he isnt a 4-3 LB. every1 wants him to play a DE cause of his pass rushing skills but hes good in coverage too, if kiwi played in a 3-4 he would thrive.

            3 LBs that we could use in a 3-4, wed also need to draft another OLB[/quote]

            You make a great point about Kiwi. He's somewhat of a liability in coverage in a 4-3 but in a 3-4 he has the potential to be great. JPP definitely has the ability to play in space with is athleticism and long arms.

            If you have those 2 at OLB, Tuck LJ and Canty on the Dline, they have potential.

            It's funny all the people who come on here and bash us switching to a 3-4 acting like they know everything. WE COULD DO IT and it would only take 1 offseason.

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            • #51
              Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

              lol @ this thread. We have one good linebacker, and people want us to use more of them? Not only that, we'd have people who have played a position their whole career suddenly learn a new position? The main issue is personnel and depth. Our personnel is suited to a 4-3, and our D-line is deeper than our linebacker corps. Even if we had 4 good starting backers in a 3-4 it's not enough, because at least one of those guys is going to miss significant playing time.

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              • #52
                Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                [quote user="Jotun_Fan"]lol @ this thread. We have one good linebacker, and people want us to use more of them? Not only that, we'd have people who have played a position their whole career suddenly learn a new position? The main issue is personnel and depth. Our personnel is suited to a 4-3, and our D-line is deeper than our linebacker corps. Even if we had 4 good starting backers in a 3-4 it's not enough, because at least one of those guys is going to miss significant playing time.[/quote]
                i love how ever1 thinks they're defensive geniuses. yea in a 4-3 right now we have 1 good LB in boley, but if we were to switch to a 3-4 our OLB would be jpp and kiwi, they would be great in a 3-4. then u have boley who would adjust fine at MLB and herzlich who played in a 3-4 in college will know what hes doing, then u have tuck, linval, and canty as d linemen.
                and boom u have what looks like a scary front 7 in a 3-4. not f'n difficult

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                • #53
                  Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                  I've been saying for awhile now its time to get rid of the Core group of vets that have been around and strangly invisible for most if not enough chunks of 3straight collapses! Guys like Osi and Tuck are right at the head of the list! I basically pleaded that we take that 2nd rounder for Osi in the offseason as he'd never had back to back good seasons and was yet another yr older and dosen't defend the run and is injury prone The backlash from the homers on here is to much sometimes! THey get way to attached! We'd be lucky to get a 2nd for Osi at this point more like a 3rd now

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                  • #54
                    Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                    Not that I support having a 3-4 defense or if i do, but correct me if I'm wrong, didn't we invent the 3-4 defense?

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                    • #55
                      Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                      [quote user="Jon6777"]JPP would be awesome as an OLB in a 3-4. Use him like Ware and blitz him from all over the line all game, have him drop in to coverage only a few times. We'd have Kiwi opposite of JPP who can play coverage well for a big guy. Canty would be back at his natural position at 3-4 DE (rather see him cut though with that contract). Have Linval be the NT and Tuck at the other DE spot. Boley and Herzlich/Jones would be at MLB.Wouldn't like to see this actually happen but Id gladly do it in Madden!
                      [/quote]LMAO, agreed
                      Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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                      • #56
                        Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                        [quote user="VBGiantsFan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="VBGiantsFan"][quote user="slipknottin"]Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh[/quote]

                        Teams make successful transitions to 3-4 defenses all the time.

                        Look at the Jets. Look at Houston. Look at the Redskins.

                        I agree, we'd need a few free agent pick ups and drafts, but it's not some crazy pipe dream like you are trying to make it seem. We have some pieces that can be moved to different positions and still be effective.[/quote]

                        And the teams that do it have a reason to do it.

                        Redskins for instance had orakpo who was not a good fit as a 4-3 LB or a 4-3 De.

                        Texans switched because they had a lot of linebacker talent.

                        The giants would switch why? Their best players are ideally suited as 4-3 DEs.[/quote]

                        Well, I agree and disagree with you:

                        A 3-4 defense would make Tuck, Joseph, and probably Austin obselete along the line.

                        JPP is big enough to be a DE in a 3-4 and Canty was originally a 3-4 end.

                        Osi would be a wildcard. He has the same size as guys like Ware and Orakpo, but there really is not tell how good he would be as an OLB until he's actually playing it. I think he'd be great, but I guess that's an unknown.

                        Boley's and Kiwi's position wouldn't change that drastically. What may happen is Kiwi could become obsolete and J Williams put at his position since he has similar size and speed, but is better in coverage as well.

                        Either way, I agree it would be an interesting transition, but a lot of our great players could still be effective. Tuck and possibly Kiwi are the only guys we'd probably have no place for.[/quote]

                        So in your mindset we would switch to 3-4 and all of a sudden our last 2 2nd round picks just become expendable??

                        JPP is big enough to be a 3-4 DE, but he excells in 4-3. Canty as well is having a damned good year. It would be a waste of talent to have those guys as 3-4 OL eaters

                        Osi as a straight pass rushing OLB, I guess that could be possible. As long as he doestn have to play coverage or stop the run

                        If you think JWill's coverage skill is better than Kiwi's you must have missed a handful of games this year. The only time JWill's coverage was good was against Vick when his duty was to be the spy all game
                        Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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                        • #57
                          Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                          [quote user="nycsportzfan"]*I've been saying for awhile now its time to get rid of the Core group of vets that have been around and strangly invisible for most if not enough chunks of 3straight collapses! Guys like Osi and Tuck are right at the head of the list!* I** basically pleaded that we take that 2nd rounder for Osi in the offseason as he'd never had back to back good seasons and was yet another yr older and dosen't defend the run and is injury prone*** The backlash from the homers on here is to much sometimes! THey get way to attached!* We'd be lucky to get* a 2nd for Osi at this point*** more like a 3rd now**** [/quote] No one is giving the Giants more then a 5th round pick for Osi

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                          • #58
                            Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                            any suggestions on defensive coordinators that will be available? some1 who can run a 3-4?

                            would jack del rio be willing to be a DC or does he want a head coaching job?

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                            • #59
                              Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                              [quote user="nygfan0816"]any suggestions on defensive coordinators that will be available? some1 who can run a 3-4?

                              would jack del rio be willing to be a DC or does he want a head coaching job?[/quote]

                              They aren't going to switch to a 3-4. Their best players are 4-3 ends,

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                              • #60
                                Re: rebuilding the defense for 2012

                                [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"]I've been saying for awhile now its time to get rid of the Core group of vets that have been around and strangly invisible for most if not enough chunks of 3straight collapses! Guys like Osi and Tuck are right at the head of the list! I basically pleaded that we take that 2nd rounder for Osi in the offseason as he'd never had back to back good seasons and was yet another yr older and dosen't defend the run and is injury prone The backlash from the homers on here is to much sometimes! THey get way to attached! We'd be lucky to get a 2nd for Osi at this point more like a 3rd now [/quote] No one is giving the Giants more then a 5th round pick for Osi[/quote] No i here ya there a 3rd was wishful thinking to be honest Its funny because we'll probably jump on a 4th rounder at this point lol Its funny how many people just coulden't think for themselves in the offseason and agree that a 2nd was more then enough looking at what Osi has done on a every yr basis and being another yr older and also injury prone and not good against the run It was the same thing the Yr we could've traded a 2nd for Tony Gonzalez and i pleaded that we do it and 90pct of the people on here were "no way hes to old and yada yada yada" lol He would've been huge for us and not to mention would still be here producing unlike Clint Sintim

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