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Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

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  • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
    Eli Manning won those SuperBowls with two completely different sets of receivers, that is very impressive.

    Eli Manning was purely brilliant in SuperBowl XLVI. He bailed the defense out again and again. He slowed the game down when our defense was gasping for breath and about to get blown out.

    Eli Manning knew our defense couldn’t stop Tom Brady that day so he stopped him by keeping him on the sidelines.
    Phil won with NO receivers.

    And on the biggest game of his life...Phil threw the QB equivalent of a prefect game. Of course he wasn't clutch.
    Last edited by Morehead State; 11-17-2012, 02:15 PM.
    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
      Phil won with NO receivers.

      And on the biggest game of his life...Phil threw the QB equivalent of a prefect game. Of course he wasn't clutch.
      Well, there were warm bodies playing in those positions...lol... but, I know what you mean, and it's too true. In '86 Bavaro was our No. 1 receiver, and then our two tops WR's caught 38, 39 passes for the entire season... that's just 2+ Rec/game. Hardly above average. He never had a WR like a Cruz, Nicks, Smith who caught over 70 passes in a season. He spread the ball to 8 receivers in completing his 22 passes in SBXX!.
      Someone on here, I believe either Harooni or Morehead, said that Phil was a better passer than Eli. I believe that's very true. Watch Phil's passes in the SB. All tight, hard spirals. Rarely a wounded duck like Eli throws too often. No One was better than Phil in the wind.
      Phil had a good running game and a great defense to help him win games. Other than the 4th and 17 against Minny, I can't remember many games where Phil was 'Clutch", making that last needed drive in the 4th to win a game. It just never seemed like he had to, unlike Eli who has pulled games out for us on many occasions.
      It took Phil many years to learn how to read defenses. He had raw talent and great toughness. Eli came into the league with the ability to read a defense, nurtured over his lifetime by his dad, but his arm isn't as good as Phil's. They were different, and hard to compare. I believe Phil would have won SBXXV if he were healthy. And, I also believe if Phil were healthy, we would have had a bigger lead and Norwood wouldn't have been kicking a FG at the end, because they would have needed TD's, not a FG to win. Going 10-0 in his starts that year certainly shouldn't be forgotten.
      Two great Giant QB's, in two different era's. Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.

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      • Originally posted by zimonami View Post
        Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.
        If people could do that this thread would be 2 pages.

        Also I agree wholeheartedly.

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        • Originally posted by bigjeep View Post
          I think TC needs to go! He's lost control of the team. That coach down in Philthy will be free very soon. Or maybe the other one from that other scrub team in NY! They are winners!
          We are already budgeting gas here in NY because of Sandy, if Reid comes to town we will have to start budgeting the food supply as well, there simply is not enough food right now to feed both Reid and Rex Ryan.

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          • IMO,

            Eli has more raw passing talent. He is able to make the ridiculous throw more so than Phil. Phil was more accurate. If a WR is open, Phil would hit him between the numbers. Phil also was more consistent. I picture Phil and see him standing tall in the pocket. Eli chucks and ducks.

            That being said, I don't think Phil was the type of QB that can "carry" a team the way Eli did in 2011. Phil was steady and solid. Eli is wild but can pull a rabbit out of a hat. 2 different animals.
            http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
            http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
            http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

            Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

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            • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
              That play against Minnesota is the only one you are going to be able to go to. Eli Manning is way more clutch than Phil Simms ever was. It is not even a contest.
              Utter nonsense.

              How's this one - on the biggest stage of them all, the man put on a clinic. If that wasn't an all-time clutch performance I don't know what is.

              Let me remind you that #11 is retired along with just ten other player's jerseys. Phil Simms is an all-time great Giant.

              And the few of you on here taking shots at him look down right shallow in your retaliation of of those petty words about Eli. Think about it, Phil simply stated Eli wasn't one of the greatest QB's of all time. That's what the man said, and now a few of you guys have turned that into some sort of insult and now are all offended. This is just ridiculous.

              And one last thought on this 'clutch' issue. Ever consider the fact that our team finds itself in a position of having to win it in the end so often is not necessarily a positive thing?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by zimonami View Post
                Well, there were warm bodies playing in those positions...lol... but, I know what you mean, and it's too true. In '86 Bavaro was our No. 1 receiver, and then our two tops WR's caught 38, 39 passes for the entire season... that's just 2+ Rec/game. Hardly above average. He never had a WR like a Cruz, Nicks, Smith who caught over 70 passes in a season. He spread the ball to 8 receivers in completing his 22 passes in SBXX!.
                Someone on here, I believe either Harooni or Morehead, said that Phil was a better passer than Eli. I believe that's very true. Watch Phil's passes in the SB. All tight, hard spirals. Rarely a wounded duck like Eli throws too often. No One was better than Phil in the wind.
                Phil had a good running game and a great defense to help him win games. Other than the 4th and 17 against Minny, I can't remember many games where Phil was 'Clutch", making that last needed drive in the 4th to win a game. It just never seemed like he had to, unlike Eli who has pulled games out for us on many occasions.
                It took Phil many years to learn how to read defenses. He had raw talent and great toughness. Eli came into the league with the ability to read a defense, nurtured over his lifetime by his dad, but his arm isn't as good as Phil's. They were different, and hard to compare. I believe Phil would have won SBXXV if he were healthy. And, I also believe if Phil were healthy, we would have had a bigger lead and Norwood wouldn't have been kicking a FG at the end, because they would have needed TD's, not a FG to win. Going 10-0 in his starts that year certainly shouldn't be forgotten.
                Two great Giant QB's, in two different era's. Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.
                Great post Zim.

                Comment


                • I was a big Simms fan back in the day.

                  Some of the older posters here probably remember that for a long, long time, alot of fans couldn't stand Simms. Prior to 1986, it was a very vocal contingent, but even after his SB win, there were still hard critics of Simms.

                  I've been a pretty big fan of Eli as well, and like Simms, there have been alot of fans that have been extremely critical of him during various times in his career.....since the Giants are entering their annual November swoon, the critics have re-emerged.

                  Personally, I think Eli is "elite", for the reasons Dan Fouts said......he's proven, on the biggest stage, that he can win.

                  2 SB wins v. Patriots teams lead by Brady and Belichick....... if that's not the sign of an elite QB, than this is really just semantics as far as I'm concerned.

                  Phil Simms was a more accurate QB...when he had protection, he was lethal. However, I think Eli recognizes things at the line of scrimmage better than Simms. Eli moves around the pocket better. Simms was like a statue back there.....when the protection was shaky, it was painful to watch.

                  Simms didn't have the wide receivers that Eli has.......but Simms always had a running game, and always had a brutal defense to keep him in virtually every game. And if Eli had Mark Bavaro, forget it.

                  One of the reasons why Eli has had to pull out so many comebacks is because his defense can't hold a lead, and his running game can't kill the clock.

                  If I had to pick one QB over the other, I'd pick Eli, but it wouldn't be a landslide. And yeah, I think Eli is elite.
                  Last edited by joemorrisforprez; 11-17-2012, 04:27 PM.
                  "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

                  "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by zimonami View Post
                    Well, there were warm bodies playing in those positions...lol... but, I know what you mean, and it's too true. In '86 Bavaro was our No. 1 receiver, and then our two tops WR's caught 38, 39 passes for the entire season... that's just 2+ Rec/game. Hardly above average. He never had a WR like a Cruz, Nicks, Smith who caught over 70 passes in a season. He spread the ball to 8 receivers in completing his 22 passes in SBXX!.
                    Someone on here, I believe either Harooni or Morehead, said that Phil was a better passer than Eli. I believe that's very true. Watch Phil's passes in the SB. All tight, hard spirals. Rarely a wounded duck like Eli throws too often. No One was better than Phil in the wind.
                    Phil had a good running game and a great defense to help him win games. Other than the 4th and 17 against Minny, I can't remember many games where Phil was 'Clutch", making that last needed drive in the 4th to win a game. It just never seemed like he had to, unlike Eli who has pulled games out for us on many occasions.
                    It took Phil many years to learn how to read defenses. He had raw talent and great toughness. Eli came into the league with the ability to read a defense, nurtured over his lifetime by his dad, but his arm isn't as good as Phil's. They were different, and hard to compare. I believe Phil would have won SBXXV if he were healthy. And, I also believe if Phil were healthy, we would have had a bigger lead and Norwood wouldn't have been kicking a FG at the end, because they would have needed TD's, not a FG to win. Going 10-0 in his starts that year certainly shouldn't be forgotten.
                    Two great Giant QB's, in two different era's. Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.
                    I agree not to compare them......except to say that Phil was better.
                    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                    Comment


                    • Don't know if anyone heard John Madden on Sirius NFL yesterday but he said Eli has won 2 superbowls and to many big games, Eli is an Elite Quarterback.
                      Forget the Past, Live for the Future!

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                      • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                        I agree not to compare them......except to say that Phil was better.
                        This was my laugh of the day.

                        I won't choose one over the other. They have both been great Giant QB's.
                        But, let me throw these interesting points out, just to give you younger peeps some appreciation for Phil.
                        In his career, the most times Eli has ever been sacked in a season was 30.
                        Phil had 10 seasons where his lowest # of sacks was 34, and in 4 of those seasons he was sacked over 50 times.
                        The man was tough.
                        Last edited by zimonami; 11-17-2012, 06:31 PM.

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                        • Only here can a thread go from whether or not Eli is elite into a Eli vs Simms debate. LOL
                          sigpic

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                          • Originally posted by zimonami View Post
                            This was my laugh of the day.

                            I won't choose one over the other. They have both been great Giant QB's.
                            But, let me throw these interesting points out, just to give you younger peeps some appreciation for Phil.
                            In his career, the most times Eli has ever been sacked in a season was 30.
                            Phil had 10 seasons where his lowest # of sacks was 34, and in 4 of those seasons he was sacked over 50 times.
                            The man was tough.
                            Tough as nails and he also had personality. Nobody got in Parcells face but Simms did. I'm not saying it's good for players to flare up at the coach but sometimes I do appreciate seeing emotions.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by BurnerNYG View Post
                              Tough as nails and he also had personality. Nobody got in Parcells face but Simms did. I'm not saying it's good for players to flare up at the coach but sometimes I do appreciate seeing emotions.
                              Phil wasn't afraid to argue with Parcell's... and he wasn't afraid to take on Ronnie Lott.
                              The Olineman always said no one worked harder than Phil in the weight room.
                              He paid his NFL dues in 14 seasons.
                              I believe Eli's SB performances and record of comebacks put him among today's elite, but I respect Phil having a different opinion.
                              And, Eli is inconsistently elite... lol... like over the last 4 games.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Joe Morrison View Post
                                Don't know if anyone heard John Madden on Sirius NFL yesterday but he said Eli has won 2 superbowls and to many big games, Eli is an Elite Quarterback.
                                I agree.....if Eli's not elite, then maybe we shouldn't use that term for anything, because I have no ****ing clue what it means.
                                "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

                                "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

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