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Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

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  • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Utter nonsense.

    How's this one - on the biggest stage of them all, the man put on a clinic. If that wasn't an all-time clutch performance I don't know what is.

    Let me remind you that #11 is retired along with just ten other player's jerseys. Phil Simms is an all-time great Giant.

    And the few of you on here taking shots at him look down right shallow in your retaliation of of those petty words about Eli. Think about it, Phil simply stated Eli wasn't one of the greatest QB's of all time. That's what the man said, and now a few of you guys have turned that into some sort of insult and now are all offended. This is just ridiculous.

    And one last thought on this 'clutch' issue. Ever consider the fact that our team finds itself in a position of having to win it in the end so often is not necessarily a positive thing?
    I didn’t take any pot shots at Phil Simms. Eli Manning is more clutch than Phil Simms was.

    We are often in the position to have to come back in 4th quarter because of our piss poor defense.

    On the biggest stage of all, SuperBowl XLVI, Eli Manning did more than put on a clinic. He was purely brilliant in the way he played and dictated that game. He knew he had to keep Tom Brady on the sidelines and that is exactly what he did by leading NY Giants offense to control TOP for almost 38 minutes.

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    • Originally posted by stormblue View Post
      you are correct...but someone's else's post said that it was the defenses poor play
      that resulted in Eli's having to perform an MVP comeback.
      i defended the defense and pointed out the over-all ineptitude of the offense.
      which is the truth.
      then the Eli homers started jumping in ....

      you climbed on board way later after things started getting twisted.
      if you really don't think that SB wasn't classic "David vs Goliath"
      and the defense was the slingshot.....then keep arguing with me.
      but that's the gist of it.

      if you actually read the whole thread you will see that my original posts
      say that i like both players and that i thought Simms should STFU.
      and i haven't been comparing Simms vs Eli careers....
      only the SB performances were being discussed....which as i pointed
      out are one-sided in Phil's favor.

      more gold for you. really.


      I read the whole thread and it appears that as the thread wore on you may have adopted a purposefully provocative position in order to try to counter balance other posters (the cultists) who were arguing overly biased positions in the other direction.

      Since I consider both positions incorrect I don't attach much credibility to either.

      But I now understand where you're coming from and why..I didn't see that earlier with the original post to which I had responded. My bad.
      Last edited by Sarcasman; 11-18-2012, 10:46 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post
        I read the whole thread and it appears that as the thread wore on you may have adopted a purposefully provocative position in order to try to counter balance other posters who were arguing overly biased positions in the other direction.

        Since both are incorrect I don't attach much credibility to either.
        yes ... i was getting itchy trigger finger syndrome ...too many muggers all at once.
        i have since acknowledged as much and offered my apologies for shooting hastily.

        but all my points were valid and factual.....and i won't recant any of that.
        due to the fact that I am from the Woodstock generation ...
        my opinions may be chemically enhanced and influenced by severe episodes of memory loss

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        • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
          That's weak. Webster made a great play to break up a pass that would have made things very interesting.

          Plus, do you consider Eli's pass to Nicks vs Green Bay last year an actual drive?
          They cant all be winners

          Of course it was a great play - the only thing im countering is that SB42 was won with an inept offense and completely on the D's back.

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          • Originally posted by stormblue View Post

            but all my points were valid and factual.....and i won't recant any of that.

            Well, I'm not going to go back and re-read them all to check that, besides from my perspective a bit of literary hyperbole to make a point never really hurt anyone.

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            • Originally posted by stormblue View Post
              i'm not really .....other than Rodgers i can't think of anyone in the game RIGHT NOW , that i'd rather have
              on this team.
              but i like to keep it real....is Eli better than Simms ? hell , i dunno i'd take Simms , others would say Eli ...the debate rages on...

              but this 'elite" crap is nonsense. neither one of 'em are/were consistent enough for that.

              but to say the Giants would have flat out lost both SB games with Simms is quite a stretch.
              Phil fared very well in big game situations..
              had Phil not been injured we would have crushed Buffalo .
              now , with Eli , it's like those Hostetler games...take away a helmet catch...and a Manningham miracle..

              i like 'em both ; a little truth in the perspective is all i ask.
              I don’t really know if anyone could have crushed Buffalo Bills in 1990 SuperBowl. The SuperBowl against Buffalo Bills would have been played at a much different pace if Phil Simms were the QB instead of Hoss. Now way to really tell but with Phil Simms as QB, we did lose to Buffalo Bills during regular season.

              Lets put things in perspective. The “helmet catch” by David Tyree was on 3rd and 5. If he didn’t catch it we had another chance.

              The “Manningham Miracle” was a perfectly thrown pass. Plain and simple. The success was possible because of how Eli Manning kept NE Patriots secondary in check that entire game. Patrick Chung was sure Eli Manning was gonna throw to the other side and he slightly cheated. Watch the offensive series throughout the game by us and you can see how Eli Manning kept that secondary on their toes. Heck, if MM catches the pass on the right side two series before the “Manningham Miracle,” we may not have needed such a comeback.

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              • Originally posted by stormblue View Post
                and what would be the over-all concept here....Eli tore up NE with 17 monster points ?
                or might it be that our defense shut down a record breaking offensive juggernaut and held them to just 14 points.
                a team effort indeed , but who were the real heroes ?

                you folks decide which was the greater accomplishment.
                Eli Manning scored the game winning drive in 4th quarter against NE Patriots, the number 4 ranked defense in NFL that year.

                Eli Manning and NY Giants started the game with the longest opening drive in SuperBowl history at 9:59 and set the tone of the game. NE Patriots didn’t score till 2nd quarter and the long opening drive had a lot to do with that.

                We scored a heck of a lot more points on them in the last game of the regular season and the defense couldn’t hold the lead. Do you think it makes sense that Eli Manning knew we had to control TOP and not get in to a shootout because our defense was unable to hold a lead?

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                • Originally posted by stormblue View Post
                  as i recall ....Brady got the ball back , did he not ?
                  oh , i guess that game winning defensive stand doesn't count.
                  must have been Eli and Plax out there in the dime defense.

                  oh that's right Brady had the last at-bat in SB46 too.
                  nice defense by Eli and Nicks.
                  How much time was left on the clock when NE Patriots got the ball back in those situations? Exactly. Eli Manning made sure to eat up as much clock as possible. He wanted AB to not score because he didn’t want to give the ball back to TB with anytime left.

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                  • Originally posted by Ruttiger711 View Post
                    They cant all be winners

                    Of course it was a great play - the only thing im countering is that SB42 was won with an inept offense and completely on the D's back.
                    Our offense only put up 17 points. They had that nice opening drive which disappointingly resulted in 3 points, and then struggled until the 4th, when Boss broke it for 40, and then of course the final drive.

                    Now, while every homer gets off by telling us how our defense sucks, the truth is if our defense played their typical game THAT day, we would have gotten our ***** kicked by NE.
                    Torque it till it breaks, then back off a 1/4 turn.

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                    • well Buffy , 3 straight posts blasting cannons at me out of nowhere.
                      pleased to meet you...and howdy ma'am ....and ...you go girl !!

                      Last edited by stormblue; 11-18-2012, 11:45 PM.
                      due to the fact that I am from the Woodstock generation ...
                      my opinions may be chemically enhanced and influenced by severe episodes of memory loss

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                        Our offense only put up 17 points. They had that nice opening drive which disappointingly resulted in 3 points, and then struggled until the 4th, when Boss broke it for 40, and then of course the final drive.

                        Now, while every homer gets off by telling us how our defense sucks, the truth is if our defense played their typical game THAT day, we would have gotten our ***** kicked by NE.
                        I am not saying that the defense didn’t show up but they did get help from our offense. The opening drive resulting in only 3 points isn’t really the point now is it? The very fact that the opening drive took 9:59 was what was important. We were able to keep NE Patriots from scoring till the 2nd quarter.

                        What happens is when we are all discussing we go off on tangents or put down another part of the team more than we really want to because we are defending our positions.

                        Do I think Eli is better than Phil was? Yes I do but I still love Phil and think he is an all time NY Giant great.

                        Do I think our defense has been soft at times during the past 5-6 seasons? Yes I do but I do acknowledge that they have showed up at crucial times, particularly in postseason. I also acknowledge at times that I may be over critical of them when defending my position in one debate or another.

                        Phil has the right to make any comments that he wants and I do think that they are being blown way out of proportion. I think Eli Manning is an ELIte QB but some folks do not and they do have a legitimate argument. If they are going to say that Aaron, Drew, Ben, Peyton and Tom are better then that would make Eli number 6 and technically, he wouldn’t be considered ELIte. Personally, I think that the only QB that is better than Eli is Tom.

                        The thing with Eli Manning is that when he is on his game, he is one of the most feared players in NFL. Phil as awesome as he was, never was like that. Its not a knock on Phil, just my opinion.

                        Another thing in the comparrasion with Eli and Phil is that NY Giants would win when Phil was off. Come on now folks, those of you like myself that watched Phil back then know that he put up some stinkers. He had some awful games too. When Eli is off, it is very rare that NY Giants win.

                        All the fuss about the “is Eli ELIte or not question” but folks sometimes forget to realize that Eli was asked the question. He didn’t just go out there and state “hey, I am in same class as Tom Brady.” He was asked the question and he answered it in the only way that he should have. Then he went out, had a great regular season and then an incredible post season where he threw for more yards in a single post season than any other QB in NFL history.The reporter asked him the question. Eli gave his verbal answer and then he went out and let his play do the talking.
                        Last edited by BuffyBlueII; 11-18-2012, 11:57 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by stormblue View Post
                          well Buffy , 3 straight posts blasting cannons at me out of nowhere.
                          pleased to meet you...and howdy ma'am ....and ...you go girl !!

                          Hehehehe.....I am not blasting cannons at you, just responding to the posts. Excuse me if I offended you, it was not my intention.

                          FYI, I am a man.

                          Comment


                          • if we are going by the literal definition of the word

                            I dont think there are 10 QBs better than Eli in the league

                            and in general consensus the top ten of anything would be considered cream of the crop so to speak

                            therefor he would be among the group of elite players at his position
                            Last edited by YATittle1962; 11-19-2012, 12:08 AM.

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                            • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
                              Hehehehe.....I am not blasting cannons at you, just responding to the posts. Excuse me if I offended you, it was not my intention.

                              FYI, I am a man.
                              sorry , never met a dude named Buffy.
                              due to the fact that I am from the Woodstock generation ...
                              my opinions may be chemically enhanced and influenced by severe episodes of memory loss

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
                                Amazing how our opinions change after Eli has a few rough games.
                                There are a few here that have been waiting a long time for this...and to be honest, I knew the day was coming. Eli is elite if he is protected, has receivers that can create separation, and has some sort of running game to keep the defense honest. In this scenario, he would be MVP every year, however we may never know. I compare him favorably to QB's like Brady and even his brother. If you take away one or two of those aspects and they become very average...especially the protection and we only have to look at our SB's to see what you can do to Brady if you don't give him time.

                                There are QB's out there that can succeed without great protection...for a while...but it seems these guys end up on the sideline for a stretch just about every year. How many times have you seen teams with QB's like these that head into the playoffs with their top QB out with injury?

                                I think the real problem here on this board is that there are people here who lived through the Simms era and became very attached to him. They don't want anyone else to come and take his crown, and that is understandable. I would venture to say that it happens all the time with other fans of other teams. I can only imagine if anyone ever went to SF and challenged Montana's legend. It would be ugly would be putting it mildly.

                                Like it was said before, elite is a subjective word. There is no set standard such as certain stats over a certain time to define it. Like I said before, I consider Eli elite because of the fact that he is chosen to endorse so many things, especially the ads that try to control the evils of the world. Not only has Eli accomplished a lot on the field, but he has gone about it in a way that is very honorable in a place that is not very conducive to such behavior. IMO, that makes him elite...but again, it will always just be an opinion when talking about a word like "elite".
                                Last edited by GCGiant; 11-19-2012, 10:23 AM.

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