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Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

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  • nygfanmaybe here are a few here that have been waiting a long time for this...and to be honest, I knew the day was coming. Eli is elite if he is protected, has receivers that can create separation, and has some sort of running game to keep the defense honest. In this scenario, he would be MVP every year, however we may never know. I compare him favorably to QB's like Brady and even his brother. If you take away one or two of those aspects and they become very average...especially the protection and we only have to look at our SB's to see what you can do to Brady if you don't give him time.
    After last year I thought he was right up there with the best, but not now. The last few weeks we have seen him go back to the things that got him in trouble years ago. It might be because he's trying to do too much but it really doesn't matter the reason. We know how well he can play and we know there is another side to his game as well.

    But the thing that has made Eli so special is not his overall game. Let's face it he might not throw the greatest passes and he's not athletic where he can beat anyone with his feat. But what he is is a winner. When the pressure is at it's greatest, this guy makes pays. That's why we love Eli Manning.

    There are QB's out there that can succeed without great protection...for a while...but it seems these guys end up on the sideline for a stretch just about every year. How many times have you seen teams with QB's like these that head into the playoffs with their top QB out with injury?
    Not sure exactly what your point is here. Every team is looking to pressure the QB, and injuries can happen to anyone. But then take guys like John Elway and Joe Montana for instance, these guys could make plays with their feet and they are two of the greatest to ever play. I think that's what Phil was saying when he said that Eli cannot do it on his own.

    I think the real problem here on this board is that there are people here who lived through the Simms era and became very attached to him. They don't want anyone else to come and take his crown, and that is understandable. I would venture to say that it happens all the time with other fans of other teams. I can only imagine if anyone ever went to SF and challenged Montana's legend. It would be ugly would be putting it mildly.
    That's silly. That's like saying we don't want Tuck to be more successful than Michael Strahan. Of course we want Eli to play well.

    Also, have you ever heard about Steve Young? You ought to read about him. But of course the difference being that Steve replaced Joe during Joe's career.


    Like it was said before, elite is a subjective word.
    Elite is not subjective. Elite is the best of the best. The cream of the crop. To dominate at your position. Now if you believe he is or isn't that is your business and it's something we can all debate.

    There is no set standard such as certain stats over a certain time to define it. Like I said before, I consider Eli elite because of the fact that he is chosen to endorse so many things, especially the ads that try to control the evils of the world. Not only has Eli accomplished a lot on the field, but he has gone about it in a way that is very honorable in a place that is not very conducive to such behavior. IMO, that makes him elite...but again, it will always just be an opinion when talking about a word like "elite".
    Eli is a great ambassador for the game of football no doubt. But like the HOF, we're only talking about what he does on the field.
    Torque it till it breaks, then back off a 1/4 turn.

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    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
      Just when the conversation gets intelligent and non-agendized, you go and try to drag it back down into the sewer.
      Take advantage of the "ignore poster" feature. It works very well.
      Torque it till it breaks, then back off a 1/4 turn.

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      • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
        Take advantage of the "ignore poster" feature. It works very well.
        its like staring at the sun Rosie. I can't look away.
        Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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        • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
          its like staring at the sun Rosie. I can't look away.
          lol.

          I'm telling you man the board has a totally new feel to it. I believe you could call it "normal."
          Torque it till it breaks, then back off a 1/4 turn.

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          • agreed about Eli playing poorly as of late, but I look at it this way and it is rather simple, Even though he has looked bad for several games, you still have to feel good in the fact that Eli Manning is the giants Qb come Sunday....Would it be a big deal if he out played A-rod on sunday? of course not, he has done it before on the biggest stage...The reason I have so much confidence in him is because we all know how hard he works and he has always found a way to get it fixed...Guy has never had a losing season, has been an all pro, great in playoffs, great on the road, as good as it gets late in games, and a 2 time super bowl MVP..my bet is on Eli this week.

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            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
              If you use just 2011 to judge Eli, then you have a good case. All these things are true about our team last season. And if we saw a continuation of last years play, then you would have a case there too. But......
              -One season out of 9 isn't the standard.
              - if the play continued this season, you could make the argument that he has become a great QB. But he is playing like a rookie this year. 12 TD's and 11 picks are worse numbers than most NFL QB's this season. Its not a small drop off...its a huge one. And his poor plays are really bad. I mean real "shake your head" kind of bad.

              I am very disappointed that he has played the way he has. I was actually starting to believe that he had become a much better QB. And BTW..as bad as his numbers are, they should be worse. He threw two passes in the hands of defenders at our near the attacking endzone in SF and in Dallas that should have been picked and run back for defensive TD's.

              So we have to step back and take a look at the good and bad of Eli. His career so far in its entirety. What we see is a guy with flashes of greatness. A guy who put together two great playoff runs. A guy with a knack for late game greatness at times. But we also see a guy who is extremely inconsistent, who is capable still of horrendous play that only rookie QB's should have, and a guy who has a generally "uneven" level of play for 9 years.
              So I see a franchise QB, who has done some great things with us, but also has weaknesses and unbroken bad habits that keep him off the list of "elite" QB's.
              good point about the niner game, he got lucky on a few throws, but you could also say he should have at least one more td, considering the drop cruz had last week...but overall I agree

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              • Boomer and Adam Schein were really giving it to Simms tonight on the Monday Quarterback show. Look, it was a knee-jerk comment by Simms, but he's still one of the greatest Giants QB's of all time and one of the nicest guys too. I gave him a pass on this one.

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                • Originally posted by alentown pa View Post
                  agreed about Eli playing poorly as of late, but I look at it this way and it is rather simple, Even though he has looked bad for several games, you still have to feel good in the fact that Eli Manning is the giants Qb come Sunday....Would it be a big deal if he out played A-rod on sunday? of course not, he has done it before on the biggest stage...The reason I have so much confidence in him is because we all know how hard he works and he has always found a way to get it fixed...Guy has never had a losing season, has been an all pro, great in playoffs, great on the road, as good as it gets late in games, and a 2 time super bowl MVP..my bet is on Eli this week.
                  I agree, except I'm not sure what to expect this week. The team has to show me something before I can feel comfortable that we are back on the right track.

                  But just imagine if the slide continues. This place will be ugly. Let's hope we are all in our happy place come Sunday night.
                  Torque it till it breaks, then back off a 1/4 turn.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                    I agree, except I'm not sure what to expect this week. The team has to show me something before I can feel comfortable that we are back on the right track.

                    But just imagine if the slide continues. This place will be ugly. Let's hope we are all in our happy place come Sunday night.
                    Not sure if the Giants have that edge this year! They look too complacent!
                    Players come and go on the Free Agency Merry-Go-Round, but the N.Y. Giants will always be here!

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                    • Originally posted by bigjeep View Post
                      Not sure if the Giants have that edge this year! They look too complacent!
                      I'm not sure complacent is the right word, but it's on the right track.
                      They are lacking something... focus? Belief in the goal?
                      But, what you are talking about has nothing to do with Eli playing badly. If Eli plays better, we can win in spite of a lack of focus/urgency. But, we won't get through the playoffs.
                      Are we kidding ourselves, or do we really think they're capable oof going all the way?
                      Well, if you revisit the Carolina and 49er games, I'm convinced you'll see the best team in the NFL.
                      Now, how do they regain that edge?
                      I'd like to see a rookie, Wilson in particular, have a big important 4th Qtr. run to snap some people to attention... like Bradshaw did for us in 2007 against Buffalo. He came in and wouldn't let us lose. Not the same old 'Eli to the rescue', comeback win... but, a big run from scrimmage. We need some of that attitude that I think a run like that would help instill. For some reason TC isn't bringing it out of them.... something needs to snap them to attention.

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                      • Originally posted by zimonami View Post
                        I'm not sure complacent is the right word, but it's on the right track.
                        They are lacking something... focus? Belief in the goal?
                        But, what you are talking about has nothing to do with Eli playing badly. If Eli plays better, we can win in spite of a lack of focus/urgency. But, we won't get through the playoffs.
                        Are we kidding ourselves, or do we really think they're capable oof going all the way?
                        Well, if you revisit the Carolina and 49er games, I'm convinced you'll see the best team in the NFL.
                        Now, how do they regain that edge?
                        I'd like to see a rookie, Wilson in particular, have a big important 4th Qtr. run to snap some people to attention... like Bradshaw did for us in 2007 against Buffalo. He came in and wouldn't let us lose. Not the same old 'Eli to the rescue', comeback win... but, a big run from scrimmage. We need some of that attitude that I think a run like that would help instill. For some reason TC isn't bringing it out of them.... something needs to snap them to attention.
                        Eli is not getting the protection he had gotten earlier and that is also making a difference! The pressure is forcing Eli into mistakes and Interceptions!
                        Players come and go on the Free Agency Merry-Go-Round, but the N.Y. Giants will always be here!

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                        • When Eli wins his 3rd SB MVP this year and becomes the undisputed GOAT, will this nonsense stop?

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                          • Originally posted by EliDaMANning View Post
                            When Eli wins his 3rd SB MVP this year and becomes the undisputed GOAT, will this nonsense stop?
                            nope..u will have miserable posters like MH, Buddy33, and harooni, trying to find fault with this QB..it gets old, but it will never stop

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                            • Originally posted by EliDaMANning View Post
                              When Eli wins his 3rd SB MVP this year and becomes the undisputed GOAT, will this nonsense stop?
                              probably not.

                              but he will definitely be the scapeGOAT if he doesn't win it.

                              due to the fact that I am from the Woodstock generation ...
                              my opinions may be chemically enhanced and influenced by severe episodes of memory loss

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by EliDaMANning View Post
                                When Eli wins his 3rd SB MVP this year and becomes the undisputed GOAT, will this nonsense stop?
                                Oh, ye of little faith....

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