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Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

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  • god as I remember it with Hoss we were just getting by teams "real close games" his numbers weren't that great....but I may be wrong.....I think we still win with Simms.....Hoss winning it cost Simms his job the next year no ? Hanley....I throught that was bull**** then him a Reeves didn't get along....I feel like Simms got ripped off for a couple years of playing time ....I like Hoss as a player also talk about tough he got killed in oakland


    parden the butting in
    Last edited by byron; 11-20-2012, 09:13 PM.

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    • Originally posted by byron View Post
      god as I remember it with Hoss we were just getting by teams "real close games" his numbers weren't that great....but I may be wrong.....I think we still win with Simms.....Hoss winning it cost Simms his job the next year no ? Hanley....I throught that was bull**** then him a Reeves didn't get along....I feel like Simms got ripped off for a couple years of playing time ....I like Hoss as a player also talk about tough he got killed in oakland


      parden the butting in
      I hated that they went with Hoss in 91 and 92 as well, not saying we would have won another superbowl but they would have made the playoffs in 91 with simms.

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      • I think if Simms is our QB in SBXXV that Norwood wouldn't have been kicking that FG... we would have been up by more than a TD. Hoss was great, and I'm eternally grateful for the job he did... but, he managed the game and minimized his own mistakes. He was rarely on the attack. Short passing game, run the ball with Hoss. And, Hoss' mobility was a wrinkle other teams weren't prepared for, and he made a lot of great scrambles at big times.
        That might have been Phil's best year until he got hurt. Our offense was clicking nicely

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        • Originally posted by byron View Post
          god as I remember it with Hoss we were just getting by teams "real close games" his numbers weren't that great....but I may be wrong.....I think we still win with Simms.....Hoss winning it cost Simms his job the next year no ? Hanley....I throught that was bull**** then him a Reeves didn't get along....I feel like Simms got ripped off for a couple years of playing time ....I like Hoss as a player also talk about tough he got killed in oakland


          parden the butting in
          I've had arguments before about this. After Simms went down the Giants started running the ball more. Something I felt they needed to do and they probably wouldn't have if Simms was still there. But there was no way Simms should have lost his job to Hostetler over an injury.

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          • Originally posted by alentown pa View Post
            I hated that they went with Hoss in 91 and 92 as well, not saying we would have won another superbowl but they would have made the playoffs in 91 with simms.
            Yeah I think so to....Hoss could scramble out of trouble... Simms was a far better passer both were tough Parcell had stayed Simms would have been the man ... I like Hoss to but always felt Simms got screwed....

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            • Originally posted by GameTime View Post
              yeah I know the "legend" of Joe Nameth. But his stats suck......more losses than wins etc...
              but he is a legend and thats the only reason he is in....
              Anyone who questions Namath's greatness based soley on his stats, is missing the bigger picture..... and totally missing the point!
              "I'M ALL FOR IT!"

              John McKay, HC of the 1976 winless TB Buccaneers, when asked by a reporter, how McKay felt, about the execution of his offense.

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              • Originally posted by Cool Papa B. View Post
                I've had arguments before about this. After Simms went down the Giants started running the ball more. Something I felt they needed to do and they probably wouldn't have if Simms was still there. But there was no way Simms should have lost his job to Hostetler over an injury.
                well that has a lot to do with the wizard Ray Hanley...."spelling'
                '

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                • Originally posted by bigblue58 View Post
                  Anyone who questions Namath's greatness based soley on his stats, is missing the bigger picture..... and totally missing the point!
                  On the list of QB's you'd pick to lead your team in one big game, Namath is not in the first cut (first 10-12), understanding his remarkable SB victory.
                  No one remembers who came in second.

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                  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                    If loving Morehead is wrong....you don't want to be right.

                    Plus everyone thinks you're Alec Baldwin. So not sure about any street cred.
                    That's how I get them. They underestimate me and then I kill them softly
                    sigpic

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                    • Originally posted by EliDaMANning View Post
                      When Eli wins his 3rd SB MVP this year and becomes the undisputed GOAT, will this nonsense stop?

                      Presumptuous posts tend to rub me the wrong way. Concern about his recent play and our team's slide is not nonsense.

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                      • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                        I agree with a lot of this post. You're right, sometimes we argue our positions and come across as if we are taking shots at players or coaches or whatever, when that is really not the intention of the point were trying to make. That is why some people (mostly the loonies) labeled me a hater.

                        But you must admit you did make comments stating that if Eli played in Simms' system and era, he would have dominated it, and Phil would have struggled with this team. You followed that up by saying Parcells would have done back-flips to have Eli, and tried to diminish Phil's SB performance by suggesting it was due to soft defense. You also tried to discredit him for our success in 1990 as well. So while you seem to be in gentlemen-mode now you certainly weren't earlier in the thread.

                        One thing I want to touch on is when we analyze the differences in the game, we need to consider not only how things have changed on the field, but off it as well. I've said this many times, and will say it again; the Giants did have a QB coach back in 1981. That is why Phil was very interested in playing for Bill Walsh. When Phil was worked out by Walsh, he released that this man was something special and extremely knowledgeable about the QB position. The Giants on the other hand, didn't hire a QB coach until 1991 and that guy was Jim Fassel. Fassel played a major role in Phil's development as a QB. Film study before Jim was nothing like it is today. Just the technological aspect alone that allows these players to study the game is light-years ahead in comparison to what it was. So when we talk about Eli being better at reading defenses and things of that nature, let's agree that he damned well better be.

                        The other thing I would debate you on is whether Eli could "be off" and we still win. Up until the end of 2007 I would say that was exactly what was happening. Plaxico Burress made it so that all Eli had to do was chuck up in his direction and somehow Plax would come down with it time after time. Without Plaxico we weren't winning that SB, period.

                        And In more recent years as Eli has progressed and continues to wow us in the 2-minute drill, he does struggle at times, and get's bailed out by his teammates. It works both ways.

                        There were a lot of lean years before Phil Simms became a Giant, and I have never discounted him. I've always thought the lack of talent surrounding him as well as Parcells influence on the offensive system, made it very difficult for a QB to perform at a high level.

                        And with that. I gotta get back to work!
                        I didn't intend to be "ungentlemanly" in my previous post comparing the SuperBowl performances. What Phil did in SuperBowl XXI was incredible. However, Eli did go up against a tougher defense in SuperBowl XLII and their head coach was Bill Bellichek.

                        I wasn't trying to diminish Phil's 1990 season but folks really can't definitively state that we would have blown Buffalo Bills out in SuperBowl if Phil Simms had played the game. Jeff Hosstettler was the QB and he brought a different dynamic to the field. Yes, I like our chances against Buffalo Bills with Phil Simms as QB but I really don't know if we would have beaten them. I tend to think that if Phil were in that game that it would have turned in to a shoot out and I don't think we could have won that way against Buffalo Bills. However, we will never know.

                        Heck, if Phil didn't get hurt in 1990, he and Eli's 2011 seasons may have been very close. Unfortunately there is no way to tell.

                        I see your point in regard to the QB coach. However, there are not many QBs in NFL that can read defenses as well as Eli can. Also, Eli has not had a QB coach that is of note since coming in to NFL but I think the point you are making is that the entire field has been revolutionized in the time between Phil and Eli and that Eli has benefited from that. Okay, I can agree with that but lets be honest, Eli has basically had a QB coach since he was a kid in Peyton and Archie.

                        Plexiglass was Eli's security blanket. He could chuck it to him and Plexiglass would snag it. I am sure that he relied on Plex being able to do that and as painful as it was for Plex to Cheddar Bob himself and mess up our run, it has made Eli become a better QB. However, Eli Manning's adaptability and ability to evolve his game is a great attribute that he has. With the exception of some of the games with Plexiglass, it is very rare that Eli has an off game and wins. That was not the case with Phil. He also had a security blanket that he could hit over the middle and be sure he would make the catch and that was Mark Bavarro.

                        If one was better than the other is a debate that will go on more than likely till Eli retires but I think we can all agree that we are happy that neither one of our NY Giant QB legends ever had any off the field legal troubles or drama of note.

                        I like debating with you Rosie, you are a very knowledgable NY Giants fan.

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                        • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
                          I
                          I see your point in regard to the QB coach. However, there are not many QBs in NFL that can read defenses as well as Eli can. Also, Eli has not had a QB coach that is of note since coming in to NFL
                          He's had Gilbride, Chris Palmer, and Mike Sullivan as QB coaches since being with the Giants, and now Sean Ryan. All of his previous QB coaches have gone on to become OCs in the NFL.

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                          • Originally posted by alentown pa View Post
                            agreed..but nobody is going to forget Phil Simms, as for this thread, IMO simms is just keeping himself in the lime light as much as I love Phil its a little petty for him to make those comments, he is a competitive guy and I think its sour grapes.
                            You might be right about that. Phil Simms is a competitive guy.

                            I can still still remember the night he was out buying Pampers for his kids late at the local grocery store and beat me to the check out line. We made eye contact and I knew I was not messin with this dude.
                            Last edited by Roosevelt; 11-20-2012, 11:43 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by byron View Post
                              Yeah I think so to....Hoss could scramble out of trouble... Simms was a far better passer both were tough Parcell had stayed Simms would have been the man ... I like Hoss to but always felt Simms got screwed....
                              Simms got screwed by a bum of a coach. And too make matters worse, some of the fools on this board actually get off on that.

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                              • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                                You might be right about that. Phil Simms is a competitive guy.

                                I can still still remember the night he was out by Pampers for his kids late at the local grocery store and beat me to the check out line. We made eye contact and I knew I was not messin with this dude.
                                lmao that's great Rosey, to bad it wasnt chris simms, you could of easily strong armed him

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