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Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

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  • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
    I dont consider it to be this great stat per se. but it does show tenacity in being able to go into a hostile environment in the playoffs, and come out victorious.
    I agree but I don't think that it would be the point the average football fan would make 20 years from now.
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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    • Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
      I agree but I don't think that it would be the point the average football fan would make 20 years from now.
      eh, who knows.

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      • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
        Eli's legacy will speak for itself. All Fantasy Football aside...
        But will Eli's legacy compare to that of Peyton and Brady? There isn't a question on whether Eli will have a significant legacy but it's about if he will earn the right to be mentioned in the same sentence as those two when you look at the entire resume.

        Even though he was close to 5k yards, he was outshadowed by the likes of Brees and Brady. Stafford hit it too but no one will care. Some will even see Rodgers tied with Eli since he didn't play the last game of the regular season. Not that I agree with it but Eli will always face an uphill and unfair battle in this conversation.

        single season passing yards is more a testament to Marino then it is for Brees and Brady since they latter two only accomplished this once the receiver rules were in place.
        True to a certain extent. 5,000 is now the new mark everyone is impressed with though I think playoff success should be weighted more in the potential 4 games you can play up to.

        I agree ... road play off wins is a dubious distinction at best as it means you weren't good enough during the regular season to merit a home game.
        I see it more like trying to give a QB pitcher or goalie like statistics when american football shouldn't be measured like that. It isn't fair to label that under an Eli achievement when there are 51 other players responsible for those victories, especially when you had a guy like Jacquian Williams who came up huge in the SF game to get the TO in overtime.

        This I think this is one of Eli's biggest plugs ... both SBs ended with the ball in Brady's hands. Additionally, the 2007 Patriots are widely considered one of the best NFL teams ever.
        Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Brady have under a minute in both SBs to get his time a TD? How often is that accomplished by an offense?

        do prize league MVPs over Super Bowl MVPs, however there has never been a 2 time Super Bowl MVP who hasn't made the HoF (which is why I think Eli makes it if Martians kidnapped him today).
        That first SB MVP is controversial to some. Considering that Patriots team was one of the best offenses in history, some feel that the Dline or Justin Tuck in particular should of been the recipient of the award. Plus, the QB in most occasions is given the game MVP. It will depend on the voter/fan.

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        • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
          But will Eli's legacy compare to that of Peyton and Brady? There isn't a question on whether Eli will have a significant legacy but it's about if he will earn the right to be mentioned in the same sentence as those two when you look at the entire resume.
          He has one more than SB his big bro. Peyton could have had two but will be remembered as choking it away. You can't debate that one. Threw it right to the defender for a death pick six...

          And while Tom may be considered better, Eli still beat him in the big one multiple times. So yeah, he very well could be mentioned along with them. The regular season does not dictate how good of a quarterback you are, its the entire deal that does.

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          • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
            He has one more than SB his big bro. Peyton could have had two but will be remembered as choking it away. You can't debate that one. Threw it right to the defender for a death pick six...

            And while Tom may be considered better, Eli still beat him in the big one multiple times. So yeah, he very well could be mentioned along with them. The regular season does not dictate how good of a quarterback you are, its the entire deal that does.
            Brady also looked extremely pedestrian against the Jets in the 2010 playoffs. You can make the case that his wins over Denver and Baltimore weren't impressive either.

            I'm not sure why we get this perception that Brady, Brees, and Peyton are always good all the time. The regular season? yeah, but what about the playoffs? isn't that what matters the most? I guess it all depends on your perception.
            Mood: WOOF!

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            • Don't forget the original debate was whether Eli was "elite" or not ... I think all this talk kind of proves that he is.

              Back to our tangent ... I'd think Eli would need one more SB win to cement his place in the best of the best conversation. Plus another couple of standout seasons comparable stat wise to 2011.

              Note: Eli won the first SB MVP based on the throw to Tyree and considering it was the game winning drive and it was mostly pass driven, deserves the MVP. I don't think it was controversial at all (and I do agree that the dline and/or Tuck was just as deserving).
              I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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              • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
                He has one more than SB his big bro. Peyton could have had two but will be remembered as choking it away. You can't debate that one. Threw it right to the defender for a death pick six...

                And while Tom may be considered better, Eli still beat him in the big one multiple times. So yeah, he very well could be mentioned along with them. The regular season does not dictate how good of a quarterback you are, its the entire deal that does.
                I don't think one extra SB over Peyton really does enough to warrant having him in the discussion with Peyton on terms of individual talent and achievements. That to me shows that the Giants are a better franchise overall than the Colts were. It has been mentioned a few times in the past on how they focused too much on putting everything in Peyton's hands by focusing on drafting offensive weapons for him when the OL and D clearly needed to be boosted. Thankfully, our FO doesn't do that.

                Again, I respectfully disagree on your view of Eli beating Tom. That isn't fair to guys like Wilfork on the Pats D or JPP on the Giants D when you make it out to be some 1-on-1 battle. The schemes and players they faced were completely different. I feel the same way when people say "Rivers beats Peyton most of the time". That's simply not how it works.

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                • Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
                  Don't forget the original debate was whether Eli was "elite" or not ... I think all this talk kind of proves that he is.

                  Back to our tangent ... I'd think Eli would need one more SB win to cement his place in the best of the best conversation. Plus another couple of standout seasons comparable stat wise to 2011.

                  Note: Eli won the first SB MVP based on the throw to Tyree and considering it was the game winning drive and it was mostly pass driven, deserves the MVP. I don't think it was controversial at all (and I do agree that the dline and/or Tuck was just as deserving).
                  Eli needs another Super Bowl win to solidify a previous Super Bowl win which was to solidify his first Super Bowl win lol.
                  Mood: WOOF!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                    I don't think one extra SB over Peyton really does enough to warrant having him in the discussion with Peyton on terms of individual talent and achievements. That to me shows that the Giants are a better franchise overall than the Colts were. It has been mentioned a few times in the past on how they focused too much on putting everything in Peyton's hands by focusing on drafting offensive weapons for him when the OL and D clearly needed to be boosted. Thankfully, our FO doesn't do that.

                    Again, I respectfully disagree on your view of Eli beating Tom. That isn't fair to guys like Wilfork on the Pats D or JPP on the Giants D when you make it out to be some 1-on-1 battle. The schemes and players they faced were completely different. I feel the same way when people say "Rivers beats Peyton most of the time". That's simply not how it works.
                    You can make the case that he outperformed Brady.
                    Mood: WOOF!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                      I don't think one extra SB over Peyton really does enough to warrant having him in the discussion with Peyton on terms of individual talent and achievements. That to me shows that the Giants are a better franchise overall than the Colts were. It has been mentioned a few times in the past on how they focused too much on putting everything in Peyton's hands by focusing on drafting offensive weapons for him when the OL and D clearly needed to be boosted. Thankfully, our FO doesn't do that.

                      Again, I respectfully disagree on your view of Eli beating Tom. That isn't fair to guys like Wilfork on the Pats D or JPP on the Giants D when you make it out to be some 1-on-1 battle. The schemes and players they faced were completely different. I feel the same way when people say "Rivers beats Peyton most of the time". That's simply not how it works.
                      It's not only having one more ring then his brother, but how he won it.

                      And you may disagree with Eli beating Brady, but that's how all of the pundits put it and eventually perception becomes reality.
                      I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                      • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                        Eli needs another Super Bowl win to solidify a previous Super Bowl win which was to solidify his first Super Bowl win lol.
                        I like to do cocaine so I can work harder so I can make more money so I can buy more cocaine ...
                        I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                        • The main thing is Eli beat Brady twice in the Super Bowl and I think that deserves recognition

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                          • Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
                            I like to do cocaine so I can work harder so I can make more money so I can buy more cocaine ...
                            Hey me too
                            Mood: WOOF!

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                            • And somehow we got on to Brady vs. Eli .... I think Brady's career eclipses Eli's pretty much in all aspects currently. If that was in question.
                              I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                                You can make the case that he outperformed Brady.
                                And most of the time when the Chargers and Colts played, Peyton was outperformed by Rivers. One could say Rivers beat him OR maybe that the Chargers D just had Peyton's number all those years? Look at Eli vs. the Redskins defense in recent years. I wouldn't really say Grossman outplayed Eli lol.

                                And you may disagree with Eli beating Brady, but that's how all of the pundits put it and eventually perception becomes reality.
                                Perhaps you are right. I see it as a disservice to all the other players myself but I'll learn to accept it in time.

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