Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Dline83 View Post
    This is where I run into a problem with your logic. How do you explain not crediting Eli's regular season last year with no running game and a poor defense during the most part of the regular season, he literally caried the team in a bunch of games. How about the degree of turnover at positions for Eli vs. Payton? Payton has had some amazing wr during his time in Indy. What about all of the road playoff wins for Eli, I mean the two times we went to the Super Bowl we had some rough roads there, even historic. Wouldn't you also say it would be hard to get a MVP award or make game to game accomplishments individually, why is it that Manning gets credit for those things as an individual but for the Super Bowls and playoffs it is all because of the team, Eli was the one throwing the ball in Green Bay the first playoff trip there, and what it was like 5 degrees, yet that gains no individual merits?
    My problem exactly.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dline83 View Post
      This is where I run into a problem with your logic. How do you explain not crediting Eli's regular season last year with no running game and a poor defense during the most part of the regular season, he literally caried the team in a bunch of games. How about the degree of turnover at positions for Eli vs. Payton? Payton has had some amazing wr during his time in Indy. What about all of the road playoff wins for Eli, I mean the two times we went to the Super Bowl we had some rough roads there, even historic. Wouldn't you also say it would be hard to get a MVP award or make game to game accomplishments individually, why is it that Manning gets credit for those things as an individual but for the Super Bowls and playoffs it is all because of the team, Eli was the one throwing the ball in Green Bay the first playoff trip there, and what it was like 5 degrees, yet that gains no individual merits?
      You won't find me criticizing most of his 2011 REGULAR season because the defense didn't really put him into too many good spots late in the game and having the worst OL in the league made things much worse as well. The playoffs are were I have an issue because it seems that people either forget or overlook how much of a team effort that run really was.

      Defense allowed 0 points to Atlanta and we had 170+ yards on the ground. JaMarcus Russell would of been victorious on that day.

      Defense did a good job against Rodgers in GB by keeping them out of reach majority of the game. Eli had a great game but it wasn't him carrying the Giants at all this round.

      SF game was pretty damn memorable for Eli. Didn't he have 60 pass attempts without turning it over once? Definitely an elite performance.

      SB against the Pats was a fine game as well. Manningham pass was the big moment but I think Tuck was once again outshined as he was the one responsible for forcing the intentional grounding against Brady and had another sack against him later on with more pressures.

      Sort of ranted there but what it comes down to for me is...Does all of Eli's legendary moments outweigh the vast amount of years that Peyton has showed play-by-play consistency and complete ownage of defenses pre-snap?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
        What I have gathered is that when a guy like Peyton wins stuff, It's cuz he's so amazing. When Eli wins its because its the team. Not quite fair don't you think?
        I don't get it either...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
          I don't know about you, but a SB means more to me than a pretty season complete with shiny stats. It isn't really just "another 60 game" its the Superbowl championship! What do you play the game for? To throw for X amount of TD's? No, the ultimate goal is the SB. And to say it means less in a QB's career because he doesn't always have the great reg stats, but "just wins the SB" is not true. Eli won those SB's because he helped bring the team there and played great. He didn't ride the coattails like some third string scrub. These facts are what will cement him as a legendary QB in NFL history.
          A SB means more to me as a fan of a team as well but not nearly as much compared to you when we are solely talking about a player's individual talent like Eli. The problem I have is with people trying to prop up QBs based on achievements that are clearly awarded to teams. You don't see anyone arguing "Well Tuck has 2 SB championships so he is clearly better than Julius Peppers." Where is the logic in discussing the amount of victories a QB has found himself in when there are two whole units he barely has influence with in regards to the defense or special teams? It's not like basketball where Kobe can be involved in every play or baseball where a player can both bat good and play amazing outfield.

          You want to tell me that Eli has an underrated throwing arm? That's fine

          You want to mention that Eli was clutch for us in the 4th quarter with the 16 TDs? Ok!

          But there is no way you can convince me that QBs should be measured by championship or playoff victories when so many of those games come down to which team plays the most balanced football in all 3 phases of the game. I simply disagree with how you are trying to include Eli in the Peyton and Brady circle.

          Comment


          • Phil Simms is not as bad as Joe Namath with his remarks on the Jets

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
              A SB means more to me as a fan of a team as well but not nearly as much compared to you when we are solely talking about a player's individual talent like Eli. The problem I have is with people trying to prop up QBs based on achievements that are clearly awarded to teams. You don't see anyone arguing "Well Tuck has 2 SB championships so he is clearly better than Julius Peppers." Where is the logic in discussing the amount of victories a QB has found himself in when there are two whole units he barely has influence with in regards to the defense or special teams? It's not like basketball where Kobe can be involved in every play or baseball where a player can both bat good and play amazing outfield.

              You want to tell me that Eli has an underrated throwing arm? That's fine

              You want to mention that Eli was clutch for us in the 4th quarter with the 16 TDs? Ok!

              But there is no way you can convince me that QBs should be measured by championship or playoff victories when so many of those games come down to which team plays the most balanced football in all 3 phases of the game. I simply disagree with how you are trying to include Eli in the Peyton and Brady circle.
              You have your opinion about that. Obviously we could argue all week about this. I guess we'll have to see. In the end no one knows who will be remembered in the same class as Brady or Peyton. But his case by far is a legitimate one. And I have a feeling people will.

              Comment


              • This thread has amazing length given the fact that we have beaten this sucker to death over several/many/too many years. I am impressed with the energy.
                No one remembers who came in second.

                Comment


                • Can you all just shut this thread down. Like stop posting. Seriously, who cares. Simms is an idiot. Ok now what? ... "Oh, I know!....100 more pages, please!"


                  ...whata joke

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ManningToJPP View Post
                    Can you all just shut this thread down. Like stop posting. Seriously, who cares. Simms is an idiot. Ok now what? ... "Oh, I know!....100 more pages, please!"


                    ...whata joke
                    I agree lol. but that wasn't what this past conversation was about. but yeah this thread should be dead and buried. it has served its purpose as bye week fodder and now has no reason for existing.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ManningToJPP View Post
                      Can you all just shut this thread down. Like stop posting. Seriously, who cares. Simms is an idiot. Ok now what? ... "Oh, I know!....100 more pages, please!"


                      ...whata joke
                      I love how you ask to shut the page down, and then cause more drama.
                      Mood: WOOF!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
                        I agree lol. but that wasn't what this past conversation was about. but yeah this thread should be dead and buried. it has served its purpose as bye week fodder and now has no reason for existing.

                        childs play

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                          I love how you ask to shut the page down, and then cause more drama.
                          I didnt take my usual dose of Dramidol this morning

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
                            You have your opinion about that. Obviously we could argue all week about this. I guess we'll have to see. In the end no one knows who will be remembered in the same class as Brady or Peyton. But his case by far is a legitimate one. And I have a feeling people will.
                            Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                            A SB means more to me as a fan of a team as well but not nearly as much compared to you when we are solely talking about a player's individual talent like Eli. The problem I have is with people trying to prop up QBs based on achievements that are clearly awarded to teams. You don't see anyone arguing "Well Tuck has 2 SB championships so he is clearly better than Julius Peppers." Where is the logic in discussing the amount of victories a QB has found himself in when there are two whole units he barely has influence with in regards to the defense or special teams? It's not like basketball where Kobe can be involved in every play or baseball where a player can both bat good and play amazing outfield.

                            You want to tell me that Eli has an underrated throwing arm? That's fine

                            You want to mention that Eli was clutch for us in the 4th quarter with the 16 TDs? Ok!

                            But there is no way you can convince me that QBs should be measured by championship or playoff victories when so many of those games come down to which team plays the most balanced football in all 3 phases of the game. I simply disagree with how you are trying to include Eli in the Peyton and Brady circle.
                            This is the biggest joke of a thread ever. No way to convince you? Well let's give it one try.

                            QB's that have won the past 10 Super Bowls.

                            1. Eli Manning x2
                            2. Drew Brees x1
                            3. Aron Rodgers x1
                            4. Tom Brady x3
                            5. Peyton Manning x1
                            6. Ben Rothlisberger x2

                            If you think that is a coincidence you are kidding yourself. It is most difficult to perform at the QB position during the playoffs and in the biggest game of them all. The best QB's take their team all the way. All the second tier guys don't. Phillip Rivers, Michael Vick, Matt Ryan, Matt Shaub, etc.

                            Heck, look at the last 20 years. Steve Young, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, John Elway.... It is no fluke that it happens this way. The only times teams win a super bowl without a truly elite qb are when you have once in a lifetime defenses. Ala Jim McMahon (85 Bears d), Trent Dilfer (00 Ravens D), Brad Johnson (Tampas D that year was arguable a top 3 defense of all time), oh ya and Phil Simms (86 Giants D). All of these qbs were still solid as a truly poor qb can never win one. But if you dont have an all time great defense, you need an all time great qb in order to win it all.

                            That's just facts.....

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ManningToJPP View Post
                              I didnt take my usual dose of Dramidol this morning
                              It's a debate. I would understand the thread closing if we were cursing each other out and what not.
                              Mood: WOOF!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by NoHuddle10 View Post
                                This is the biggest joke of a thread ever. No way to convince you? Well let's give it one try.

                                QB's that have won the past 10 Super Bowls.

                                1. Eli Manning x2
                                2. Drew Brees x1
                                3. Aron Rodgers x1
                                4. Tom Brady x3
                                5. Peyton Manning x1
                                6. Ben Rothlisberger x2

                                If you think that is a coincidence you are kidding yourself. It is most difficult to perform at the QB position during the playoffs and in the biggest game of them all. The best QB's take their team all the way. All the second tier guys don't. Phillip Rivers, Michael Vick, Matt Ryan, Matt Shaub, etc.

                                Heck, look at the last 20 years. Steve Young, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, John Elway.... It is no fluke that it happens this way. The only times teams win a super bowl without a truly elite qb are when you have once in a lifetime defenses. Ala Jim McMahon (85 Bears d), Trent Dilfer (00 Ravens D), Brad Johnson (Tampas D that year was arguable a top 3 defense of all time), oh ya and Phil Simms (86 Giants D). All of these qbs were still solid as a truly poor qb can never win one. But if you dont have an all time great defense, you need an all time great qb in order to win it all.

                                That's just facts.....
                                My point exactly. Phil Simms is a total idiot. How are we not over this, understanding of this, and past this? LOL

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X