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Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

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  • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
    It's a debate. I would understand the thread closing if we were cursing each other out and what not.
    It should still be deleted. Most, if not all of it, has been Simms vs Eli. Which is dumb arguing about two Giants greats which have given us fans years of phenomenal championship seasons.

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    • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
      It should still be deleted. Most, if not all of it, has been Simms vs Eli. Which is dumb arguing about two Giants greats which have given us fans years of phenomenal championship seasons.
      It should be deleted because not everyone sees eye to eye?
      What do you know! more than half of the threads should be deleted then.
      Mood: WOOF!

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      • Originally posted by NoHuddle10 View Post
        This is the biggest joke of a thread ever. No way to convince you? Well let's give it one try.

        QB's that have won the past 10 Super Bowls.

        1. Eli Manning x2
        2. Drew Brees x1
        3. Aron Rodgers x1
        4. Tom Brady x3
        5. Peyton Manning x1
        6. Ben Rothlisberger x2

        If you think that is a coincidence you are kidding yourself. It is most difficult to perform at the QB position during the playoffs and in the biggest game of them all. The best QB's take their team all the way. All the second tier guys don't. Phillip Rivers, Michael Vick, Matt Ryan, Matt Shaub, etc.

        Heck, look at the last 20 years. Steve Young, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, John Elway.... It is no fluke that it happens this way. The only times teams win a super bowl without a truly elite qb are when you have once in a lifetime defenses. Ala Jim McMahon (85 Bears d), Trent Dilfer (00 Ravens D), Brad Johnson (Tampas D that year was arguable a top 3 defense of all time), oh ya and Phil Simms (86 Giants D). All of these qbs were still solid as a truly poor qb can never win one. But if you dont have an all time great defense, you need an all time great qb in order to win it all.

        That's just facts.....
        No, its all regular season stats and personal achievements that decide if you are truly a great QB.......

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        • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
          It should be deleted because not everyone sees eye to eye?
          What do you know! more than half of the threads should be deleted then.
          Missing the point there Rud. Why waste time comparing two Giants players when there is so much vitriol and exasperation involved? Seems like a waste of time and bandwidth

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          • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
            Missing the point there Rud. Why waste time comparing two Giants players when there is so much vitriol and exasperation involved? Seems like a waste of time and bandwidth
            Simple, don't waste your time reading it

            I don't agree with Simms but it's interesting to read others opinions..sometimes.
            Mood: WOOF!

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            • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
              Simple, don't waste your time reading it
              Don't tell me what to do. :P

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              • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
                Don't tell me what to do. :P
                Just did.
                Mood: WOOF!

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                • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                  Just did.
                  Don't care.

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                  • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
                    Don't care.
                    This is getting off topic..
                    Mood: WOOF!

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                    • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
                      You have your opinion about that. Obviously we could argue all week about this. I guess we'll have to see. In the end no one knows who will be remembered in the same class as Brady or Peyton. But his case by far is a legitimate one. And I have a feeling people will.
                      Fair enough. I agree his case is legitimate to be mentioned with the greats but when you watch most of Eli's tape and compare it side-by-side to Peyton, Brady, or even Brees, it just feels "dirty" to sit there with a straight face as if Eli is on the same level as these guys individually. I respect your opinion though.

                      It is most difficult to perform at the QB position during the playoffs and in the biggest game of them all. The best QB's take their team all the way.
                      I'd actually agree with you until the new rules were released that hurt DBs with an increase in PIs and the "hitting a defenseless receiver" nonsense that can occur for perfectly legal hits. Not turn your head in time while covering a guy on a deep play? Possible 20+ yards allowed on an innocent mistake. QBs might be the most pressured but I'd say CB has become the new hardest position in the league and I think that's true even in the playoffs.

                      Heck, look at the last 20 years. Steve Young, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, John Elway.... It is no fluke that it happens this way.
                      Not even all of those guys you listed were "extraordinary" QBs like I'd consider Peyton or Brady. Favre choked away too many football games with crucial interceptions near the end of regulation. Aikman wasn't bad at all but very fortunate to have that Oline, the all time leader in rushing yards, and Michael Irvin on the same team. Call me nuts but I think Eli is better than those two for sure and if Eli gets another SB victory, debate will rage if he is better than Montana (which is actually arguable now since Eli doesn't benefit from a WC Offense.)

                      To clarify, I put more weight on play-by-play basis and consistency which Eli doesn't measure up to Peyton or Brady in that regard. He has had some pretty legendary moments but some equally WTF plays as well lol.

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                      • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                        To clarify, I put more weight on play-by-play basis and consistency which Eli doesn't measure up to Peyton or Brady in that regard. He has had some pretty legendary moments but some equally WTF plays as well lol.
                        Peyton and Brady have had many as well....

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                        • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
                          No, its all regular season stats and personal achievements that decide if you are truly a great QB.......
                          Yes that is clearly all I have been saying lol. I appreciate the twisting of words.

                          Peyton and Brady have had many as well....
                          Not even on the same average does that happen. Show me where those two throw left handed lob interceptions or slide and fumble the ball without being touched lol.
                          Last edited by TheEnigma; 11-28-2012, 09:06 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                            This is getting off topic..
                            haha if you think about it, 99% of this thread has been off topic. Don't see why it should change now

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                            • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                              Yes that is clearly all I have been saying lol. I appreciate the twisting of words.
                              eh its basically what you are saying

                              Not even on the same average does that happen. Show me where those two throw left handed lob interceptions or slide and fumble the ball without being touched lol.
                              Oh so only those count as WTF moment? Sounds pretty biased.
                              Last edited by Rusty192; 11-28-2012, 09:13 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by Rusty192 View Post
                                eh its basically what you are saying

                                Oh so only those count as WTF moment? Sounds pretty biased.
                                It's not what I'm saying. I implore you to go back and read a few of my last posts. I mentioned a few times about the play-by-play consistency of Eli compared to the other guys. That has nothing to do with MVPs or has more TDs or yards.

                                And you're not really building a fine case of Peyton and Brady's WTF moments when you just say "yeah they do it too". Give me some examples of stuff they've done that are as hilariously bad as some of the stuff Eli has done. I don't think you can call bias on me when you're the one rocking an Eli avatar and always arguing the Pro Eli standpoint on the Giants forum. Let's be fair here man.

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