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Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

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  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
    I didn't say he was average to above average.
    I said he is a very good QB but not a great QB.
    I think Eli has only 5 guys currently that are better. Thats not an indictment of Eli. Some of you guys just think it is.

    And trust me....I'm packing!
    Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
    I'm an army of 1.
    My mission......To keep the glorious memory of Phil Simms fresh in the minds of my fellow MB posters....and to make sure that we all be realistic about Eli.......... That he's a fine player but not one of the greats of this era.
    Wouldn't you say calling him a very good qb and a fine player equal out to saying he is average to above average? What defines a great qb to you?
    Last edited by Dline83; 11-29-2012, 05:35 PM.

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    • Originally posted by yatitle View Post
      Isn't that true of MOST QBS when they have time to throw. Make no mistake, Simms was tough as nails and would stay in the pocket until the bitter end to deliver the ball. But also held onto the ball too long many times and took way too many sacks in big spots similar to Big Ben.
      Yes, most qood QB's can deliver the ball when given time. But Eli for some reason has trouble with short range passes.

      Look at the play where he had Hyno wide open in the endzone, and overthrew him by 3 feet, and then later when dumping it off to Ahmad, he throws a laser at him from 5 yards away. It has to be a mental thing with him a times. I've never seen a QB who can play so great then turn around and throw the ball so poorly.
      Torque it till it breaks, then back off a 1/4 turn.

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      • Originally posted by Dline83 View Post
        Wouldn't you say calling him a ver good qb and a fine player equal out to saying he is average to above average? What defines a great qb to you?
        Probably the top 4. As i said yesterday, In my view there is Brady and Peyton, then a big drop off, then Rodgers and Brees, then another big drop off, then Ben and Eli with a few others like Ryan and maybe even Freeman nipping at their heels.

        So great would be Brady, Peyton, Rodgers and Brees. But that's just what rattles around in my head.
        Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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        • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
          Probably the top 4. As i said yesterday, In my view there is Brady and Peyton, then a big drop off, then Rodgers and Brees, then another big drop off, then Ben and Eli with a few others like Ryan and maybe even Freeman nipping at their heels.

          So great would be Brady, Peyton, Rodgers and Brees. But that's just what rattles around in my head.
          Can't we at least wait for Ryan to win a playoff game and Freeman to play in one, before they are mentioned in the class of Eli and Ben who have both WON 2 SBs? I think you are packing a watergun.

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          • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
            Eli is everything you said but at the same time he's also someone who has trouble making short throws as evidenced by his terrible throws to Hyno and Ahmad last game. When I see that I don't think of greatest.

            Contrast that with Phil. When Phil had time his passes were always on the money.
            That is just an incorrect statement. Would that be why he had a 55.4 average? You mention two short throws that didn't make it in the vicinity of the target, that is how you define greatness? Seems a little narrow sighted to me...

            What about the -24 degree Packers game, the two Super Bowls, all the other playoff games, the yards in the playoffs, the consecutive starts, the 4th quarter comebacks and touchdowns? I would think leading your team to 24 4th quarter comebacks and having the most td in the 4th quarter would be a better measure of greatness than looking at any number of throws that didn't make it to the target. In addition, you fail to ask why those throws were off, pressure, throwing lanes, etc...

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            • Originally posted by yatitle View Post
              Can't we at least wait for Ryan to win a playoff game and Freeman to play in one, before they are mentioned in the class of Eli and Ben who have both WON 2 SBs? I think you are packing a watergun.
              Not that I agree with MS on Ryan and Freeman (who is becoming the sidekick to Doug Martin now) being near Eli in the big picture but one does have to admit that winning championships is easier to do with the Giants and Steelers vs. the Falcons and Bucs. The Giants and Steelers build better teams through the draft and front superior coaching all across the board. There is a reason our staff is always brought up to be poached by other teams afterall.

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              • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                Probably the top 4. As i said yesterday, In my view there is Brady and Peyton, then a big drop off, then Rodgers and Brees, then another big drop off, then Ben and Eli with a few others like Ryan and maybe even Freeman nipping at their heels.

                So great would be Brady, Peyton, Rodgers and Brees. But that's just what rattles around in my head.
                But you said yourself that stats don't mean greatness so why is Rodgers ahead of Eli when Eli beat him in the playoffs and has more rings?

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                • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                  Not that I agree with MS on Ryan and Freeman (who is becoming the sidekick to Doug Martin now) being near Eli in the big picture but one does have to admit that winning championships is easier to do with the Giants and Steelers vs. the Falcons and Bucs. The Giants and Steelers build better teams through the draft and front superior coaching all across the board. There is a reason our staff is always brought up to be poached by other teams afterall.
                  the falcons have had very good-great rosters over the years as has the bucs, but I get ur point. I guess the next question in that line of reasoning would be "could eli/simms have won a SB(s) with those teams?"

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                  • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                    Not that I agree with MS on Ryan and Freeman (who is becoming the sidekick to Doug Martin now) being near Eli in the big picture but one does have to admit that winning championships is easier to do with the Giants and Steelers vs. the Falcons and Bucs. The Giants and Steelers build better teams through the draft and front superior coaching all across the board. There is a reason our staff is always brought up to be poached by other teams afterall.
                    True, but it hasn't always been as good as it is currently. Also does that somehow diminish the accomplishments made by the Giants?
                    Last edited by Dline83; 11-29-2012, 05:50 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                      the falcons have had very good-great rosters over the years as has the bucs, but I get ur point. I guess the next question in that line of reasoning would be "could eli/simms have won a SB(s) with those teams?"
                      The Falcons I'd agree with but the Bucs were lacking pretty well until this year when they hit the draft pretty big with Martin and Barron along with Jackson and Carl Nicks as FAs. I'd say the issue though with these two clubs was coaching, especially last year when Mike Smith tried to convert two huge 4th downs against us with Matt Ryan QB sneaks when he should of took the FGs. Raheem Morris was fired for a reason and it's comparisons like this that should make us thankful that we have a HC like Coughlin who gets the entire team pumped up.

                      As for your scenario, I think Eli would of won at least 1 SB with either franchise but there's just some teams like the Chargers or Raiders that are such a mess that it would be near impossible to win a championship with.

                      True, but it haven't always been as good as it is currently. Also does that somehow diminish the accomplishments made by the Giants?
                      Less diminishes the Giants and more along the lines of saying that a lot of other teams having a slightly steeper hill to climb whether it's ineptitude in the FO and coaching staff or thin talent across the roster.

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                      • This thread is still going on?

                        I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite team in the NFL.

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                        • Originally posted by Toadofsteel View Post
                          This thread is still going on?
                          The thread died some time ago - just a few of us scavengers gnawing on the carcass.

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                          • Eli would probably look at this thread and be like lol wtf.
                            Mood: WOOF!

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                            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                              As I said earlier I am an army of 1.

                              Fortunately my opponents are unarmed.
                              You are just as unarmed as the broad Beatrix Kiddo threw in the trunk of a car, lol..............

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                              • Originally posted by Dline83 View Post
                                That is just an incorrect statement. Would that be why he had a 55.4 average? You mention two short throws that didn't make it in the vicinity of the target, that is how you define greatness? Seems a little narrow sighted to me...

                                What about the -24 degree Packers game, the two Super Bowls, all the other playoff games, the yards in the playoffs, the consecutive starts, the 4th quarter comebacks and touchdowns? I would think leading your team to 24 4th quarter comebacks and having the most td in the 4th quarter would be a better measure of greatness than looking at any number of throws that didn't make it to the target. In addition, you fail to ask why those throws were off, pressure, throwing lanes, etc...
                                Eli's has done great things - no question. He's brought us a career's worth of memories and he still has many good years left.

                                But there was no pressure on those 2 throws. And those should be easy throws to make. It's like a basketball player that can nail 3's but then frustrates the hell out of you because he misses too many easy layups.

                                In 2007 Plaxico was our offensive MVP. Without him we are not winning the Super Bowl, period. And of course our defense played a huge part in that Super Bowl as well. I wouldn't have given the MVP to Eli that year. I would have given it to Justin Tuck.
                                Torque it till it breaks, then back off a 1/4 turn.

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