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Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

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  • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
    Not that I agree with MS on Ryan and Freeman (who is becoming the sidekick to Doug Martin now) being near Eli in the big picture but one does have to admit that winning championships is easier to do with the Giants and Steelers vs. the Falcons and Bucs.
    I could agree with the Bucs, but the Falcons?

    They were the 1 seed in the NFC and they got trounced by the Packers, at home. Add in the potent offense we faced last season, 0 points from them.
    For a Giant fan that I personally knew: My mom. May she smile and be delighted whenever her favorite player - Victor Cruz - scores a touchdown and does his salsa dance.

    Thank you mom for everything! Let's Go Giants!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by G-MENBK View Post
      I could agree with the Bucs, but the Falcons?

      They were the 1 seed in the NFC and they got trounced by the Packers, at home. Add in the potent offense we faced last season, 0 points from them.
      I'm talking in terms of franchise history. Heck, the Falcons didn't even have back to back winning seasons until the conclusion of 2009. Our owners and FO have good heads on their shoulders in comparison to some other teams.

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      • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
        I'm talking in terms of franchise history. Heck, the Falcons didn't even have back to back winning seasons until the conclusion of 2009. Our owners and FO have good heads on their shoulders in comparison to some other teams.
        Sure, if you were to talk about franchise history, the Giants are a cut above both the Bucs and Falcons...but recently, you can't deny that the Falcons have been a hot team, only with regards to the regular season.

        Since 2008, the Falcons have had more regular season wins than the Giants and they have made more playoff appearances. The problem is the Giants have won more playoff games in that time span and brought home the Lombardi.
        For a Giant fan that I personally knew: My mom. May she smile and be delighted whenever her favorite player - Victor Cruz - scores a touchdown and does his salsa dance.

        Thank you mom for everything! Let's Go Giants!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
          Eli is everything you said but at the same time he's also someone who has trouble making short throws as evidenced by his terrible throws to Hyno and Ahmad last game. When I see that I don't think of greatest.

          Contrast that with Phil. When Phil had time his passes were always on the money.
          come on Rosie...so the only reason Simms ever threw and incomplete is when he was pressured??..
          All QBs cough up throws...short or long....please
          "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
          You couldn't be more full of **** if you were break dancing in a Port-a-Potty.......Kruunch

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          • Originally posted by G-MENBK View Post
            Sure, if you were to talk about franchise history, the Giants are a cut above both the Bucs and Falcons...but recently, you can't deny that the Falcons have been a hot team, only with regards to the regular season.

            Since 2008, the Falcons have had more regular season wins than the Giants and they have made more playoff appearances. The problem is the Giants have won more playoff games in that time span and brought home the Lombardi.
            But the question now is which division was more competitive between the NFCS and the NFCE since that year? You had the Panthers and Bucs only posting one really noteworthy year in that whole span as a team which left the division to the Saints and Falcons for the most part. With the NFCE, you're talking about a division that is rarely ever won back-to-back and usually has 3 teams still in the hunt when everything is taken into account at the end of the season. Are the Falcons really as good as their regular season record indicates? One could say that the Giants W:L ratio is truly never accurate due to the fact they consistently find themselves with some of the toughest schedules in the league. It's really an interesting debate.

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            • Originally posted by GameTime View Post
              come on Rosie...so the only reason Simms ever threw and incomplete is when he was pressured??..
              All QBs cough up throws...short or long....please
              X2

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              • Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                But the question now is which division was more competitive between the NFCS and the NFCE since that year? You had the Panthers and Bucs only posting one really noteworthy year in that whole span as a team which left the division to the Saints and Falcons for the most part. With the NFCE, you're talking about a division that is rarely ever won back-to-back and usually has 3 teams still in the hunt when everything is taken into account at the end of the season. Are the Falcons really as good as their regular season record indicates? One could say that the Giants W:L ratio is truly never accurate due to the fact they consistently find themselves with some of the toughest schedules in the league. It's really an interesting debate.
                2008 - 2009 playoffs (Panthers, Falcons) - (Giants, Eagles): Tie
                2009 - 2010 playoffs (Saints) - (Cowboys, Eagles): Advantage NFCE. [Saints win Super Bowl]
                2010 - 2011 playoffs (Falcons, Saints) - (Eagles): Advantage NFCS.
                2011 - 2012 playoffs (Saints, Falcons) - (Giants): Advantage NFCS. [Giants win Super Bowl]

                Both divisions have had three different teams win their respected division (No back-to-back winners), two Super Bowls have gone to both divisions, and going by this, the NFCS was able to have more teams represent their division in the playoffs than the NFCE.

                Honestly, and this has and really is getting amplified today, the NFCE is overrated. Remember when the Giants won their first Super Bowl with Eli? That playoffs, 3 divisional teams made it in (Cowboys, Giants, Redskins).
                For a Giant fan that I personally knew: My mom. May she smile and be delighted whenever her favorite player - Victor Cruz - scores a touchdown and does his salsa dance.

                Thank you mom for everything! Let's Go Giants!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Broadway Blue View Post
                  X2
                  X100
                  sigpicShould the Giants fire Gilbride....

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONL7L...yer_detailpage

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by GameTime View Post
                    come on Rosie...so the only reason Simms ever threw and incomplete is when he was pressured??..
                    All QBs cough up throws...short or long....please
                    I didn't say that GT, but you have to admit that once Simms matured, when he had time you knew the pass would be where it needed to be. Now whether or not it was caught, or if the defense made a great play, that's just part of the game.

                    I'm talking about short passes in my example; wide open receiver and open passing lane. One pass was way too high and the other was thrown way too hard. I just don't expect that type of play from a top QB. Mark Sanchez, yes.

                    So for anyone who thinks Eli is great, I would ask you if you consider our team great? I know our team can be great, but we don't always play that way.

                    I see no difference with Eli.

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                    • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                      I didn't say that GT, but you have to admit that once Simms matured, when he had time you knew the pass would be where it needed to be. Now whether or not it was caught, or if the defense made a great play, that's just part of the game.

                      I'm talking about short passes in my example; wide open receiver and open passing lane. One pass was way too high and the other was thrown way too hard. I just don't expect that type of play from a top QB. Mark Sanchez, yes.

                      So for anyone who thinks Eli is great, I would ask you if you consider our team great? I know our team can be great, but we don't always play that way.

                      I see no difference with Eli.
                      Every qb has throws like that, all of them. What about all the playoff games with over 70 percent completions? I would say that two Super Bowls and the way we got them, was pretty great...

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                      • Originally posted by Dline83 View Post
                        Every qb has throws like that, all of them. What about all the playoff games with over 70 percent completions? I would say that two Super Bowls and the way we got them, was pretty great...
                        Don't get me wrong Dline, I'm not discounting everything Eli has done for us. 2007's SB win ranks right up there with the greatest days of my life.

                        I'm simply giving my reason why (at present) I don't consider Eli one of the greatest of all time or "elite" as everyone likes to call it, which I believe is what Simms was talking about.

                        I do think Eli is among the best during his era. That I agree with. He's in my top 4 or 5, but I don't see how you can ignore his recent slump and claim you're being objective. Granted, as defending world champs most people would be willing to cut their best players slack, but when it comes down to asking if he's amongst the very best, I think we need to look at it critically not give him a pass simply because of past accomplishments.

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                        • Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post
                          Don't get me wrong Dline, I'm not discounting everything Eli has done for us. 2007's SB win ranks right up there with the greatest days of my life.

                          I'm simply giving my reason why (at present) I don't consider Eli one of the greatest of all time or "elite" as everyone likes to call it, which I believe is what Simms was talking about.

                          I do think Eli is among the best during his era. That I agree with. He's in my top 4 or 5, but I don't see how you can ignore his recent slump and claim you're being objective. Granted, as defending world champs most people would be willing to cut their best players slack, but when it comes down to asking if he's amongst the very best, I think we need to look at it critically not give him a pass simply because of past accomplishments.
                          I think you and I are essentially saying the samething:

                          Originally posted by Dline83 View Post
                          I would say that the 6th best qb in the league, with two Super Bowl wins, two Super Bowl MVP awards, and many other accolades would be considered one of the greats of the era. The word elite really is meaningless, and my argument has never been that he is elite, I do think that he is one of the best qbs in the league, and the best qb the Giants have ever had, just my opinion.

                          A qb can be elite from game to game, was Rodgers last game "elite"? How about Payton's three pick performance earlier in the year? The different things that play into each of those games and the outcomes also are rarely taken into consideration. Against the Steelers our line could do barely anything to stop the pressure from getting to Manning. You commented somewhere about the int he threw right into the arms of the linebacker in the Washington game, it is really impossible to know why he did not see the player there, throwing lanes not being open, under pressure, the play breaking down, it could be any multiple of things. Im not making an excuse for the throw or the outcome, bad decision to throw it, but I am saying that to just lay the blame on the fact that he did not see him is really not looking at the play fully. I don't really care if people think Eli is elite or not, but I do think that when he has beaten some of the best qbs in the game on the biggest stages multiple times, that a good amount of credit is due.
                          The only difference might be that you think Simms is the best qb the Giants have ever had, and you are entitled to that, and I would not ever try to persuade you to think differently, that is a matter of opinion. I just feel that when you look at Eli's career it warrents him being in the discussion of the best of his time.

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                          • Originally posted by Dline83 View Post
                            I think you and I are essentially saying the samething:



                            The only difference might be that you think Simms is the best qb the Giants have ever had, and you are entitled to that, and I would not ever try to persuade you to think differently, that is a matter of opinion. I just feel that when you look at Eli's career it warrents him being in the discussion of the best of his time.
                            Phil Simms is my all-time favorite Giant which automatically makes Eli my second favorite QB.

                            We obviously agree more than we disagree but I will say that I don't get down on Eli (or any other player) for pressing, but I do get down on Eli when he miscues on an easy play.

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                            • im curious as to how brees performance is viewed by some here. this kind of performance isnt new to Brees either, he's had several games like this over his career where his ints had buried any chance at winning. now i know 95% of the time, brees is epic, but that other 5% he has some terrible stinkers....
                              also, matt ryan has had a 5 int game, and an 11/25 for 140 (or whatever his stat line was tonite) in 2 of the last 3 weeks...

                              it is my contention that even the elite qbs have bad games. i just think, as in any fan base, ur gonna have people with knee jerk reactions. i doubt we're going to see people let these pretty awful performances by brees and ryan redefine their level of play. eh i dunno i was just curious bc ive seen people literally state that "the great qbs simply do not have performances like eli has on bad days" and its just so completely untrue its ridiculous. i mean peyton manning had a 3 game stretch of like 12 ints (4x a game 3 games in a row) the final PLAYING year at Indy...maybe brady is the exception to the rule and doesnt really slump as much as have a bad game here n there, but even he has had stretches where he didnt play anywheres near his capability.

                              and performances like tonight for brees really isnt anything new, he has a game or 2 like this a season. Im curious to see if Simms discusses the "elite" issue with brees performance...

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                              • i just find it a lil odd how it was really only giants fans who devalued eli bc of the slump. eli was leading the league in yards and was actually being dscusses as the league mvp candidate before his god awful slump. yeah it was terrible, and yeah he is prone to it, just couldnt get how it seemed as if people actually still believe eli is that qb instead of the 2011 one bc their responses def felt along the lines of "see, I told you, hes not great." i mean SKIP ****ING BAYLESS and rob parker felt simms statement held zero truth to it and that he was making the statement bc his pride, and that eli was elite bc of what he's done and what they know he will do...and thats the kings of knee jerk responses.
                                when peyton threw those 3 first quarter ints at atlanta earlier in the year, there were people so quick to write him off, so it isnt exclusive to just eli. it just seems people are quicker to forget all the great things hes done and remember the tough times when eli goes thru a slump. maybe thats justified, but claiming no great qbs slump like eli did has just been proven wrong imho.

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