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Are the Giants issues a byproduct of their success?

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  • Are the Giants issues a byproduct of their success?

    I'm saying this as a big fan of Eli Manning and Tom Coughlin.

    So much of this team's success is predicated on Eli being great every week. And usually, that's enough. His record speaks for itself.....the dude is clutch. But, he's human, too.

    Our run game is complimentary....it's used primarily to set up the pass. The running back position is now essentially a blocker that might sometimes run. The most important attribute of the running back is how well he can pass protect, not his ability to run with the ball.

    3rd and short is now a passing down. On 4th and short inside the opponent's 40, we punt because we can't pick up short yardage.

    Our defense is built to pressure the passer, assuming a shootout with Eli.....the multi-purpose strengths of linebackers have been de-emphasized in favor of pass rushers who can harass the opposing QB.

    Basically, this entire team revolves around Eli Manning. And when he is on, the offense is basically unstoppable.

    But when he is off, or even average, the Giants struggle. They no longer have a running game that can choke out an opponent. A good example was the Steeler game. A 10 point 4th quarter lead turned to vapor because on offense, they couldn't control time of possession with their running game, and the defense was soft.

    And when he has a bad game, it's pretty much lights out. This team no longer has a defense that can overcome Eli's turnovers......last week was a great example. A solid defense would hold Cincy to FG's, not touchdowns.

    I don't want to turn this into another 50 page Simms v. Eli thread, but one of the biggest differences between the 2 QB's is the amount of pressure Eli has to be great every game. And a huge part of that is due to the fact that Simms had a running game and a defense that bailed him out on a regular basis.

    That's what is holding this team back from being a "dynasty".....when I look at dynasty QBs - Brady, Aikman, Montana, Bradshaw - they all had a defense and a running game.

    The Giants don't......and that's why they will always be a 9-7 to 10-6 team that will need to hope they get hot at the right moment to win it.
    Last edited by joemorrisforprez; 11-15-2012, 01:07 PM.

  • gumby74
    replied
    Originally posted by Tmurda1984 View Post
    I been saying for a while that Eli Manning carries this team. And I dont know what Reese is going to do, after the Eli Manning Era. Like the original poster said, Eli Manning helps the running game and pass rush as well. Eli Manning can make receivers like Barden look good. I think the lack of talent around Eli is starting to catch up with Reese and the Giants. Nicks is limping around, Bennett is invisible out there, and our running game is so trash we are praying for them not to fumble it. This team cant run the ball against 6 or 7 in the box. You cant tell me that Reese surrounded Eli with adequate talent, Eli cant even step up in the pocket because of Baas and Boothe.. What is Reese doing to this team? Wheres are 3rd receiver, tight end, running backs, offensive line. Reese is working with a tight cap and instead of making a good solution to the problem, he puts a band-aid over it by restructing contracts and getting himself into the same dilemma the next year. Way to go Reese! This man should go back to scouting and lets bring in a GM that has a clue.
    Go back to playing madden.

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  • Captain Chaos
    replied
    Teams know our philosophy and how we approach each game, I think it's reasonable to assume that some things need to change. You still can't; however, get past the fact that we are weak in some areas in particular the O line in particular....

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  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Why are u worried about the team after the Eli era. Yeah they will probably be bad and we will draft another QB ,thats how it works. Hopefully we get lucky the year we are bad and have Andrew Luck fall in are laps

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  • Toadofsteel
    replied
    Originally posted by Tmurda1984 View Post
    I been saying for a while that Eli Manning carries this team. And I dont know what Reese is going to do, after the Eli Manning Era. Like the original poster said, Eli Manning helps the running game and pass rush as well. Eli Manning can make receivers like Barden look good. I think the lack of talent around Eli is starting to catch up with Reese and the Giants. Nicks is limping around, Bennett is invisible out there, and our running game is so trash we are praying for them not to fumble it. This team cant run the ball against 6 or 7 in the box. You cant tell me that Reese surrounded Eli with adequate talent, Eli cant even step up in the pocket because of Baas and Boothe.. What is Reese doing to this team? Wheres are 3rd receiver, tight end, running backs, offensive line. Reese is working with a tight cap and instead of making a good solution to the problem, he puts a band-aid over it by restructing contracts and getting himself into the same dilemma the next year. Way to go Reese! This man should go back to scouting and lets bring in a GM that has a clue.
    Because Reese makes all the decisions about starting injured or inferior players and leaving the healthy/superior talent on the bench... riiiight.

    Leave a comment:


  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Originally posted by Tmurda1984 View Post
    I been saying for a while that Eli Manning carries this team. And I dont know what Reese is going to do, after the Eli Manning Era. Like the original poster said, Eli Manning helps the running game and pass rush as well. Eli Manning can make receivers like Barden look good. I think the lack of talent around Eli is starting to catch up with Reese and the Giants. Nicks is limping around, Bennett is invisible out there, and our running game is so trash we are praying for them not to fumble it. This team cant run the ball against 6 or 7 in the box. You cant tell me that Reese surrounded Eli with adequate talent, Eli cant even step up in the pocket because of Baas and Boothe.. What is Reese doing to this team? Wheres are 3rd receiver, tight end, running backs, offensive line. Reese is working with a tight cap and instead of making a good solution to the problem, he puts a band-aid over it by restructing contracts and getting himself into the same dilemma the next year. Way to go Reese! This man should go back to scouting and lets bring in a GM that has a clue.
    I cant stand this board right now. Pure asinine comments. The Giants are the most successful NFL team in the NFL over Reeses tenure but yeah he has no clue what he is doing.He won 2 Super Bowls with 2 completely different philosophies on Offense.They went from being a run the ball possession team to high octane passing offense that attacks teams down the field.Any Gm can do that though he is clueless

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  • Rat_bastich
    replied
    Originally posted by bearbryant View Post
    No. 2 is Eli is not making up for the p[oorproduction of the rest of the team( includes the coaches)
    Here is where I wholeheartedly agree with you. I've said it here before but you live by the sword you die by the sword. Last year, Eli put this team on his shoulders and carried the team until other parts started clicking and got it together. The trend even carried over to the beginning of this season where there were a few fourth quarter heroics. However, it was bound to happen that the offense would eventually fizzle or even stumble. It is unfair for the team to expect Eli to pull their butts out of the fire game in and game out. At some point they have to take personal accountability and responsibility for their failings, and that doesn't mean just acknowledging it to the media and the fans, that means doing something about it. Even the effort has seemed lackluster of recent.

    Now, I'm not saying the team has been expecting Eli to win the games singlehandedly, but sometimes it appears from my perspective, that they are not doing everything they can to win these games and maybe think that Eli will work his magic like he has done so many times before. The guy is probably exhausted.

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  • bearbryant
    replied
    A byproduct of their success.... Hmmmmmm. Here's the deal: This team has a few issues that it didn't address in the off season. No. 1 is the O line.. Without changing this quality the O will continue to struggle. . No. 2 is Eli is not making up for the p[oorproduction of the rest of the team( includes the coaches). No. 3 Our defense no longer has a title, a definition. We are no longer a Dline killer defense. We have become like every other team in the league: 1 good DED with othert players, nothing special to add to the mix. Nothing like Strahan, Osi and Tuck, etal. Those 3 are a good start!

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  • Rat_bastich
    replied
    Originally posted by appodictic View Post
    Its definitely not the time to start changing things. We need to get younger and develop are new players, but this team as it is now is leading he division and its not the time to hit the panic button. Eli is good and when he is on, he is on. But he really did throw away two-or-three games this year. he constantly avoids short open passes in the flat to make risky down field passes and audibles out of third and 1. As much as eli is reposible for our wins he is also responsible for our failures. Look at the redskins game,that game was over if giants go on a 6 minute clock killing drive the game is over, but when Eli trys to be Brady it goes bad fast, the giants letthe skins take the lead and they were lucky they got let off the hook. If the giants would just run the ball (like in the steelers game. even if it is not effective they probably would waist enough time to win. but they dont, so they dont.
    That is the crux of a quick strike offense. They hit you so fast that you have time to recover and make a drive and possibly win it. I agree with you that even if the running game is not totally there, it still eats up a chunk of time. Use the quick strikes to get the first downs and run the ball to chew up small chunks of turf and time.

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  • appodictic
    replied
    Its definitely not the time to start changing things. We need to get younger and develop are new players, but this team as it is now is leading he division and its not the time to hit the panic button. Eli is good and when he is on, he is on. But he really did throw away two-or-three games this year. he constantly avoids short open passes in the flat to make risky down field passes and audibles out of third and 1. As much as eli is reposible for our wins he is also responsible for our failures. Look at the redskins game,that game was over if giants go on a 6 minute clock killing drive the game is over, but when Eli trys to be Brady it goes bad fast, the giants letthe skins take the lead and they were lucky they got let off the hook. If the giants would just run the ball (like in the steelers game. even if it is not effective they probably would waist enough time to win. but they dont, so they dont.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rat_bastich
    replied
    Originally posted by tcseacliff View Post
    that was part of my point, wish i stated it better. why aren't the giants adapting better when other teams are countering our defenses, and offenses? we seem to just go with the same crew, just shifted a bit, but still predictable to the teams doing the adjusting to us . if you can't beat em, join em sort of thing. wish the giants were more flexible ,with more looks! the only trick to our games is which Eli shows up, even that , they are starting to exploit more. we need a fresh playbook !
    I'm not saying that the team needs to fire the coaches or anything, but usually when a team needs a change in philosophy they either fire the head coach or shake the team up by firing "a" coach. Of course, look how that worked out with the Eagles. I think the Giants definitely need to start changing some things, but of course anything too drastic will take a personnel overhaul and a period of rebuilding.

    The team kind of reminds me of the Bills of the 90's where guys were hanging around too long because of their success in getting to Super Bowls. They got there but didn't win it. Marv Levy had a loyalty to alot of the players and kept them together as long as he could...Gardner, Thomas, Reed, Smith...all of them started to decline and teams were countering them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tmurda1984
    replied
    I been saying for a while that Eli Manning carries this team. And I dont know what Reese is going to do, after the Eli Manning Era. Like the original poster said, Eli Manning helps the running game and pass rush as well. Eli Manning can make receivers like Barden look good. I think the lack of talent around Eli is starting to catch up with Reese and the Giants. Nicks is limping around, Bennett is invisible out there, and our running game is so trash we are praying for them not to fumble it. This team cant run the ball against 6 or 7 in the box. You cant tell me that Reese surrounded Eli with adequate talent, Eli cant even step up in the pocket because of Baas and Boothe.. What is Reese doing to this team? Wheres are 3rd receiver, tight end, running backs, offensive line. Reese is working with a tight cap and instead of making a good solution to the problem, he puts a band-aid over it by restructing contracts and getting himself into the same dilemma the next year. Way to go Reese! This man should go back to scouting and lets bring in a GM that has a clue.

    Leave a comment:


  • tcseacliff
    replied
    Originally posted by CowboysSuck View Post
    No, but you know what DEFINITELY is a by-product of this team success? All these whiny fans. Shoo flies
    all of our complaining is just a fan's world. can't have a good fan page without some dissent and speculation between games. watch how boring this buy week gets. we are still all fans and are still ALL IN!

    Leave a comment:


  • CDN_G-FAN
    replied
    1. the giants issues our plain old fashioned football issues. its the same issues of how and why we beat both GB and SF in the playoffs as pretty significant underdogs. Sometimes things just don't go your way in football.

    2. I think the one silver lining from this season, if unsuccessful, will be that you can't always get it done at the last minute, in the last few games, in the 4th quarter. You play that game too much and you'll come out losers more often than winners.

    Leave a comment:


  • tcseacliff
    replied
    Originally posted by Rat_bastich View Post
    The league goes through trends. At one point it was smashmouth football, then came the west coast offense, the greatest show on turf/cover 2, running back by committee, etc. All of it, like bad fashion, is recycled over and over. Right now the Giants' defense was based off of pass rushing and it has been successful to get us to two Super Bowls. When a team is successful, other teams use the blueprint and build off of it, improve upon it or build to counter it.

    Right now the Giants are being countered with slants and killed in the middle. Defenses are countering our offense, though throwing to defenders doesn't help. We are at a point where we were the superior creature in a short psan but now it is time for us to evolve again. Just an observation.
    that was part of my point, wish i stated it better. why aren't the giants adapting better when other teams are countering our defenses, and offenses? we seem to just go with the same crew, just shifted a bit, but still predictable to the teams doing the adjusting to us . if you can't beat em, join em sort of thing. wish the giants were more flexible ,with more looks! the only trick to our games is which Eli shows up, even that , they are starting to exploit more. we need a fresh playbook !
    Last edited by tcseacliff; 11-15-2012, 09:35 PM. Reason: spelliing

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