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  • State of the Giants

    Edit: there is a lot to read, but i think it is worth it

    First off, I am a young college athlete and NOT a coach. I have no coaching experience, but I do have knowledge of the intricacies and techniques involved. I love the Giants, when the giants lose it ruins my week, when they win great all week, and when they win a super bowl (especially in the fashion of super bowl 42) I am eternally grateful.

    I realize all (or most) of us fans are aggravated and upset, but you must realize that the wins are only great with losses to contrast. That win versus the Patriots will give me happiness for the next 40 years and then some.

    This season was doomed at the start, we were ravaged by injuries, losses in FA (our leading receiver, our starting TE, our starting DT) , and were breaking in another new DC. Even when we had Spags, our defense took awhile to adapt to the schemes. To expect playoffs from that is asking for too much. Heck we've been starting free agent and late draft picks at linebacker from the start! We have a lot to be happy about.

    Our offseason:
    FA Losses: Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Barry Coffield

    INJ Losses: Terrell Thomas, Jonathan Goff, Clint Sintim, Marvin Austin, Bruce Johnson.

    That's 5 starters (two pro bowlers), 2 Fringe starters, and one accomplished backup

    INJ during the season:

    Domenik Hixon, Justin Tryon, Michael Coe, Michael Clayton, Will Beatty, Stacy Andrews, Brian Witherspoon (All on IR)

    .Prince Amukamara, David Baas, Ramses Barden, Travis Beckum, Ahmad Bradshaw, James Brewer, Mark Herzlich, Brandon Jacobs, Mario Manningham, Spencer Paysinger, Henry Hynoski, Aaron Ross, Devin Thomas, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora (All missing multiple games)

    Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips (Both Banged up constantly and missing a game each)

    When you look through our roster, it is hard to find players that weren't injured during this season. Without a doubt, we were overwhelmed by these injuries which happened to everyone and especially to our best players.

    If I were the Giant Front Office, I would consider this into my equation, but there is no way I don't fire Fewell. His schemes are terrible, especially for a team that lacks linebackers and lost many starters. Secondly, our medical staff and trainers must be one of the worst in the league with the amount of injuries we have every year.

    Regarding Coaches, there are a number of head coaches that have been(or will be) fired this year that would make excellent coordinators. Norv Turner, Steve Spagnuolo, Todd Haley and Jack Del Rio come to mind. Norv Turner's offensive system would be incredible for us, reverting back to a run team with placation base pass plays. Spags is ideal for us, not only because he has been a coordinator before for us or that he is familiar with the personnel we have, but because he runs man press, cover 1 shells, A gap pressures, and runs a variety of different blitz packages. We have the firepower to blitz and play man to man press with larger corners. He is also a player's coach, he is very emotional and inspires his players with his competitive drive. Haley and Del Rio both had success as coordinators, but I wouldn't want them as much because of their schemes not fitting our personnel as well.

    Eli Manning has graced us with a season deserving of an MVP under normal circumstances. He has been our offense, made up for the faults of the entire team, and entered the realm of the elite without a doubt. He is a bright spot on the team, and no longer a liability in the pocket. He moves very well in the pocket and has developed such a presence that rivals his brother's. He may not have the strongest arm, or any mobility, but he is extremely accurate and good at putting his teammates in a position to make a play by reading the defense. We have something now that not many other franchises have, this development is worth the losses and interceptions.

    Victor Cruz replaced Steve Smith's production and then some. He is a threat in the open field, he runs creative routes and gets a lot of separation, he makes spectacular catches, and gave us miracles that other teams can only envy. We lost a pro bowl receiver, and gained another that is a threat to score on every play instead of just a possession receiver. Great body control, great hands, just needs more experience and to stop running before he catches. Eli now has two money receivers in Nicks and Cruz.

    Jason Pierre-Paul became the monster that Jerry Reese thought he'd be. Despite what (site that ranks players due to stats) ranks him as, he is easily a top 10 DE. He hasn't even developed pass rush moves for god's sake! His raw talent has been put on spotlight, and with the right coaching (our DL coach, Osi, and Tuck) and playing, he should be a premiere DE in the league. Not many teams have this either, pass rushers don't come as often as we have had, and for that we should be thankful.

    Jacquian Williams has a bright future. Despite some rookie mistakes and bad coordinating, Williams has been a good overall linebacker versus the run and the pass. This guy is going to start for us, and his speed, blitzing ability, and fluidity will be very useful once he gains some coaching. He is definitely physically gifted and has a high motor just like JPP, he just needs to be put in a position to utilize them in the right way.

    Mitch Petrus was a steal. Many people don't watch the offensive line, but this guy has done a number on DL's in the run game. He was a walk-on at Arkansas (also a wrestler) and played TE, FB, G, and C. He isn't as inept at pass protection, but there is no reason to bet against this guy with the effort he puts forth. Guard of the future.

    Jake Ballard impressed us all. He is basically an extra offensive lineman at 6-6 280ish, He is very slow, but he is good at route running due to his suddenness and hands (which have become inconsistent). Production-wise, he is better than Boss, but it is important to know that Boss did open up things for our receivers outside due to his speed which occupied the safeties.

    Michael Boley is one of the best linebackers in the NFC. He neutralizes opponents TE's and RB's, he and Williams are similar and both are the reason why we didn't get killed by TE's and RB's all year. Previously quick RB's and TE's were our problem, but no more. Boley has always been a good coverage LB, but since joining us he has developed much more as a passrusher, and is above average versus the run.

    Ramses Barden showed us another flash of his incredible potential. He isn't quick off the line, he doesn't run the best routes, but he sure as hell can use his body and long arms to snag balls away from DB's. I know it's early, but I think we've got another very good receiver here.

    Mark Herzlich is a very good run defender and special teamer. He isn't washed up by any means, but he isn't 100% percent yet. The longer separated from cancer he is, the better he will be. To expect him or Greg Jones to pop up unexpectedly and fill the role of MLB especially with this offseason is ridiculous. But both have a fire that the Giants like, and whether they start or are special teamers, they will have an impact.

    Da'Rell Scott is lightning in a bottle. How we don't play this kid more is beyond me, he is the only back we have that can take it all the way any given play. He has the speed, has some shake, but he needs to be more fluid in his cuts and more sudden. He hasn't displayed elusiveness despite the preseason, but we know its there at least.

    Prince Amukamara is having growing pains and everyone shouldn't be quick to judge. When a player has an injury and misses camp there is a much bigger learning curve, couple this with the shortened offseason and not receiving the playbook until the lockout ended, there is no reason to hate on him. Looking at him out there you can tell that he is struggling to know his assignments. When you are struggling to know your assignments and have to remember and act on them in the seconds before a play. You aren't sure on your job, how do you do that with 100% effort? Apart from the results of his play recently, he played well man to man in his first two games. He has the size, speed, and fluidity to play corner, he just needs to adapt to the speed of the game.

    Osi Umenyiora isn't worth starting anymore. He only goes for the QB by overshooting the LT. He is capable of using other passrush moves, but the sack fumble is the easiest way to get it, and he is all about himself now. I do not want him on this team based solely on that and his attitude in the offseason. He may be utilized better with other teams, but for now he is done in NY. Get rid of him, you might get a late 2nd, or 3rd, but its worth it now.

    Brandon Jacobs has become a straight ahead runner only. He has hardly any change of direction despite weight loss, and now he can only use his speed and power to get yardage. Whatever happened that set him off in this stretch of productivity beats me, but I am still tired of the plays he had where he stopped at the line and did nothing. They became lost plays for Eli.

    With this young talent, and Jerry Reese as our GM, we can be sure we will have a team with a bright future.

    Right now, if we lose these next two games, we could wind up with a pick anywhere from 9-13ish which would be a significant improvement in draft position from 21 which would be a one and done in the playoffs. There is talent in this draft, specifically at linebacker, OL, and DL where we need some help.

    If we make the playoffs there is a small chance that we do well, but it depends on our coordinator and Tuck. If Fewell runs these zone coverages and lets receivers run free we are doomed, its a free release and our personnel is not equipped to cover the middle lack of linebackers. Tuck being healthy is necessary because JPP cannot be the only person to generate a passrush, there is clearly something wrong with Tuck and either he plays through it and plays well or he shouldn't play at all.

    All in all the major changes I want to see made are:
    -Firing Fewell and Gilbride (gilbride should do so much better than he is)
    -Firing the training and medical staff
    -Hiring Spagnuolo as DC
    -Hiring Norv Turner as OC (wishful thinking)
    -Letting Jerry Reese do his thing in the draft
    -Let our younger players play the rest of the year so we can see what we have
    -Rebuilding our OL
    -Trade Osi
    -Trade or restructure Jacobs's deal, he is not worth that money

  • #2
    Re: State of the Giants

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    • #3
      Re: State of the Giants

      Please respond!!!

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      • #4
        Re: State of the Giants

        Nothing new here. We, the fans, know this. Tthe Giants management on the other hand is as incompetent as they come.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: State of the Giants

          Ok, sorry but Norv Turner isn't coming to the Giants to be the OC after years of being a head coach. Sad but Spags isn't returning either - think that was a bridge that was burned for some reason. I'm not convinced on Scott having enough moves to be a true "take it all the way threat". He hasn't played much but I just don't see enough elusiveness in his game. Petrus played, I'm pretty sure, at Arkansas, and he may turn out well. I agree with some other posters here who say that Amukamura looks slow - doesn't show much closing speed at all. I agree we have been decimated by injuries and I REALLY agree that the coordinators need to go. However, Coughlin won't fire both of them so Tom probably has to go as well. It's easy to get down on our team after what we've seen the last few weeks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: State of the Giants

            good catch on petrus, I don't know why I said Wisconsin...I also agree on Norv Turner, its wishful thinking. Spags actually has a good chance of coming back, what other things can he ask for? He would be returning to a defense he is very familiar with, a GM and Front Office that has shown they will invest their draft picks and free agency signings to their DC's needs.

            I agree on scott, he does have moves, but we don't see them often. The "take it all the way threat" is moreso referring to his speed, which makes him lethal to any defense.

            I do agree partly with Amukamara, he looks slow but i attribute that to not knowing assignments well enough to go 100% speed and out of fear of making a mistake.

            I have a feeling that Coughlin is already safe, as is Gilbride, but Fewell is G-O-N-E GONE.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: State of the Giants



              You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.




              The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).




              Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.




              Ditto for Boss.




              Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.




              Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.




              Losing Hixon did hurt.




              Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.




              Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.




              Nice job with breaking it down.

              No one remembers who came in second.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: State of the Giants



                IMO, its time for the coaching staff to go also, we have all seen the samething play out 3 years in a row. I also think the FO should take a hard look at some of these vets and start shaking things up by getting rid of those who dont want to be here.




                I cant stand watching games where they decide to just lay down and die, its time for a change or its going to be the samething next year

                The Gigalo with the most below

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                • #9
                  Re: State of the Giants

                  [quote user="jomo"]

                  You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.




                  The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).




                  Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.




                  Ditto for Boss.




                  Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.




                  Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.




                  Losing Hixon did hurt.




                  Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.




                  Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.




                  Nice job with breaking it down.

                  [/quote]

                  You can say that Smith and Boss were meaningless now, but entering the season the general census was panic. Cruz and Ballard were nonfactors. We essentially had no TE and two WR's that hurt their QB with drops for interceptions. Boss and Smith were eli's safety valves, and although they were solid but not spectacular, they were very good players for us.

                  Smith's route running was second to none, he ran routes to pinpoint, and was able to get consistent separation, theres no wonder why he had over 100 receptions. I hope we resign him because Manningham will not be worth the money in all likelihood.

                  Boss had pretty good speed and caught balls and took hits (many gave us crucial first downs off of penalties) that had to make fans love him. He wasn't the greatest run blocker, never really set an edge, but his speed and height allowed our receivers to do work by occupying the safeties and we simply don't have that on our roster right now.

                  Technically, Spags wouldn't be new. He had a lot of these players on his defense, and his ability to play to his personnel's strength would alone be a dominating factor to picking Spags over Fewell. Zimmer is the only other DC I would want that could possibly be available, and he would most likely need to be signed as a HC.

                  As much as people like to hate on Goff, he was a leader and underrated by most people. I never really liked him because I wanted a freakishly athletic linebacker. But he was a monster against the run, great power and above average instincts. His pass coverage was average, but he wasn't as terrible as people want to believe, the backs that he was forced to cover gave Pierce fits in the past, and he did as well if not better than him.

                  Sintim was a sad coincidence. He never should've been playing as a 4-3 OLB. He simply didn't have the fluidity or agility to keep up in coverage. But man, he could rush the passer. If he wound up in a 3-4 i think it wouldve been an entirely different story, he played in a complex Al Groh system in virginia and racked up double digit sacks (mightve been the sack leader one year in the NCAA or pretty damn close). He had two bad injuries and was out of position, just bad luck.

                  Cofield was not just another DT for us. He got rush, we are severely missing interior rush this year. Him and Robbins were both well rounded DT's that were somewhat average in all aspects, but even having minimal rush mattered alot, now QB's can step up in the pocket and see over the line for easy throws in the middle. A gap pressure means a lot, it leads to alot of checkdowns and interceptions off of sideline throws (ball has to travel a longer distance) and sailed balls in the middle by not getting enough on a throw because the QB can't step up and plant. This is another reason why FEWELL SUCKS, no A gap pressure (spags loved to blitz the A gap).

                  Agree on Hixon, terrible field position off every kickoff and most punts.

                  Losing backup players still hurts, you cannot honestly say that it doesn't because you don't have full force of your roster. In a battle of fruition that the nfl has become, injuries to ANYONE matters. Coe and Clayton were also good special teamers, and with a special team like ours, we need all the help we can get.

                  Lol, Cruz was essentially a rookie this season, let him be! He's trying to do too much, running before he catches it, but its not like receivers don't do this. hakeem did this all the time, and has become a lot better. The drop nicks had was because of the sun, he needs to wear a visor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: State of the Giants

                    [quote user="BallinNY"][quote user="jomo"]


                    You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.




                    The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).




                    Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.




                    Ditto for Boss.




                    Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.




                    Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.




                    Losing Hixon did hurt.




                    Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.




                    Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.




                    Nice job with breaking it down.

                    [/quote] You can say that Smith and Boss were meaningless now, but entering the season the general census was panic. Cruz and Ballard were nonfactors. We essentially had no TE and two WR's that hurt their QB with drops for interceptions. Boss and Smith were eli's safety valves, and although they were solid but not spectacular, they were very good players for us. Smith's route running was second to none, he ran routes to pinpoint, and was able to get consistent separation, theres no wonder why he had over 100 receptions. I hope we resign him because Manningham will not be worth the money in all likelihood. Boss had pretty good speed and caught balls and took hits (many gave us crucial first downs off of penalties) that had to make fans love him. He wasn't the greatest run blocker, never really set an edge, but his speed and height allowed our receivers to do work by occupying the safeties and we simply don't have that on our roster right now. Technically, Spags wouldn't be new. He had a lot of these players on his defense, and his ability to play to his personnel's strength would alone be a dominating factor to picking Spags over Fewell. Zimmer is the only other DC I would want that could possibly be available, and he would most likely need to be signed as a HC. As much as people like to hate on Goff, he was a leader and underrated by most people. I never really liked him because I wanted a freakishly athletic linebacker. But he was a monster against the run, great power and above average instincts. His pass coverage was average, but he wasn't as terrible as people want to believe, the backs that he was forced to cover gave Pierce fits in the past, and he did as well if not better than him. Sintim was a sad coincidence. He never should've been playing as a 4-3 OLB. He simply didn't have the fluidity or agility to keep up in coverage. But man, he could rush the passer. If he wound up in a 3-4 i think it wouldve been an entirely different story, he played in a complex Al Groh system in virginia and racked up double digit sacks (mightve been the sack leader one year in the NCAA or pretty damn close). He had two bad injuries and was out of position, just bad luck. Cofield was not just another DT for us. He got rush, we are severely missing interior rush this year. Him and Robbins were both well rounded DT's that were somewhat average in all aspects, but even having minimal rush mattered alot, now QB's can step up in the pocket and see over the line for easy throws in the middle. A gap pressure means a lot, it leads to alot of checkdowns and interceptions off of sideline throws (ball has to travel a longer distance) and sailed balls in the middle by not getting enough on a throw because the QB can't step up and plant. This is another reason why FEWELL SUCKS, no A gap pressure (spags loved to blitz the A gap). Agree on Hixon, terrible field position off every kickoff and most punts. Losing backup players still hurts, you cannot honestly say that it doesn't because you don't have full force of your roster. In a battle of fruition that the nfl has become, injuries to ANYONE matters. Coe and Clayton were also good special teamers, and with a special team like ours, we need all the help we can get. Lol, Cruz was essentially a rookie this season, let him be! He's trying to do too much, running before he catches it, but its not like receivers don't do this. hakeem did this all the time, and has become a lot better. The drop nicks had was because of the sun, he needs to wear a visor.[/quote]Not because of the sun. I watched as it happened and immediately after. The shadows ran to the goal line cones. Nicks was running between the hash marks. Of course it was in play becasue it was behind him but to say that the sun got in the way is simply an excuse. He should handle his mistake with more honestly, since he is close to being a top 5 receiver in the league. People loved Goff because he occasionally blew up a running play. All too often however, he too bad lines to the ball and he is too stiff to be effective in pass D. ......a very ordinary player IMO. Biggest single problem for this team is PF. We have way too much talent on Dright nowto be ranked #30. That is on him.
                    No one remembers who came in second.

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                    • #11
                      Re: State of the Giants

                      I have no doubt that the Giants have a good amount of talent and much of it is young; and the team was absolutely decimated by injuries. I personally would have been less disappointed if they had crashed and burned because of the injuries, but they stayed in it so far. What makes it infuriating is that they are still in it, but still find a way to lose which has been the pattern the past few years -- injuries or no injuries. I'm done with the excuses.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: State of the Giants

                        http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...a-potential-TD

                        he is clearly in the light, he probably could see the shadow of the ball, but not the ball itself. This is hard for a receiver because you cannot locate the tip and see the rotation. If you don't see either, you can't depend on using your hands which is why he was trying to catch it with his body. It's just an unfortunate thing that could've been avoided with a visor.

                        Completely agree on PF.

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                        • #13
                          Re: State of the Giants

                          BallinNY.

                          Sorry for the late reply. As you said, that was a pretty long post, and took me some time to get through it all.

                          I don't agree with everything you've said, but that was a great post. Your opinions are clearly presented and supported with information or examples.

                          I'd love to see Spags return, but if the Eagles want to land him, I see them pulling Reese's pants down again in the offseason.

                          I'd like to see Del Rio as DC if Spags is not available. I think LB is a huge defensive need next season....it's should be Reese's number one concern.

                          I like your idea on Norv Turner, espeically with a guy as bright and gifted as Eli at QB.

                          At this stage of his career, Eli is capable of running the same sort of offense that Aikman ran under Turner.

                          The key is getting some new talent on the offensive line, and someone to replace Jacobs and Bradshaw next year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: State of the Giants

                            [quote user="Martyr"]


                            IMO, its time for the coaching staff to go also, we have all seen the samething play out 3 years in a row. I also think the FO should take a hard look at some of these vets and start shaking things up by getting rid of those who dont want to be here.




                            I cant stand watching games where they decide to just lay down and die, its time for a change or its going to be the samething next year




                            [/quote]




                            First thing I'd do is get rid of Reese, then the coaching staff. I know that sounds like a lot of instability, but I blame our lack of talent on Reese and the coaching inadequacies are pretty obvious. I'd instigate more wholesale changes on this roster than many people would like because unless we have MAJOR shakeups, I can't see us making a move up fast enough.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: State of the Giants

                              [quote user="JMFP2"]BallinNY.

                              Sorry for the late reply. As you said, that was a pretty long post, and took me some time to get through it all.

                              I don't agree with everything you've said, but that was a great post. Your opinions are clearly presented and supported with information or examples.

                              I'd love to see Spags return, but if the Eagles want to land him, I see them pulling Reese's pants down again in the offseason.

                              I'd like to see Del Rio as DC if Spags is not available. I think LB is a huge defensive need next season....it's should be Reese's number one concern.

                              I like your idea on Norv Turner, espeically with a guy as bright and gifted as Eli at QB.

                              At this stage of his career, Eli is capable of running the same sort of offense that Aikman ran under Turner.

                              The key is getting some new talent on the offensive line, and someone to replace Jacobs and Bradshaw next year.[/quote]

                              Thank you, and thank you and the rest of you all for giving me legitimate responses instead of what other people do and give out immature comments or personal attacks.

                              I did hear rumors about eagles and spags, but we are at a point where we can't afford NOT to get him back. He is the ideal person for our defense. They need a kick in the *** and he does that, he knows how to motivate players. I would throw money, a future HC job, and keys to our personnel choices (to a certain degree like we did before).

                              As far as Del Rio, I am not as familiar with his schemes, but I know he likes to blitz so I have no problem with that. If you are not going to be aggressive then you are giving the offense free yardage and free first downs, prolonging a drive.

                              LB is really a huge need, I think we ignored it because we saw the transition to a passing league, but the problem is, you still need LB's who can line players up, who can diagnose a play or what the defense has to do to stay in position. Pierce was great at that, we need someone like that, a leader or quarterback of the defense. I like Vontaze Burfict, although he's a headcase, players feed off of him and he delivers difference making plays. He doesn't play controlled and sometimes gets himself out of position, but there is talent there that isn't in any other prospect i've seen this year.

                              Turner is ideal, he is a QB and WR friendly OC, and runs a system based on run. He and Spags both would fit us like gloves. I'm tired of Coughlin's Cover 2 coordinators, we aren't that kind of team, and i don't like the scheme itself because you are relying on quarterbacks trying to take too much. Its predictable and opposing OC's eat this up all day.

                              I agree with new offensive linemen too. McKenzie is done, he is average in all aspects now, even run blocking where he was very good two years ago. Diehl has taken a few steps back, Snee too. I think what would be best right now is to move Diehl to RT, keep Snee at RG. They already have a good relationship and work well together, so it won't be hard for them to gel next to eachother.

                              Next I would get rid of any hope I had for Beatty, he was sub par in all aspects this year, and I think he was alot of the reason why Diehl looked soo bad.

                              Petrus should be starting at LG, unless we decide to go out and sign a FA. Petrus is very good at run blocking and I don't think he will be a liability in pass blocking

                              Two prospects I really like are Peter Konz C from Wisconsin, and Riley Reiff from Iowa. Both could start early in their careers, both are great run blockers.

                              a starting line of:

                              Reiff-Petrus-Konz-Snee-Diehl

                              would create a much improved run blocking line. I don't like Baas, he is very average, and Seubert was much better than him for us IMO.

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