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It's time to end the Ponzi Scheme...

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  • Toadofsteel
    started a topic It's time to end the Ponzi Scheme...

    It's time to end the Ponzi Scheme...

    In economics, a Ponzi Scheme is borrowing from one investor promising a certain return without doing anything real to produce that result. Instead, you borrow more money from another investor to pay off the first one. This continually snowballs until the system eventually breaks and Bernie Madoff is put in jail for fraud.

    Anyway, I think a variant of this is happening with our player contracts. JR is constantly restructuring contracts to be continuously more back-loaded. Players are trailing off in their playing ability while simultaneously getting more and more overpaid. Diehl, for example, despite having produced little in the past 2 seasons, has a ginormous cap hit in 2013, even if cut. Several other players leave us in similar situations (Rolle, Canty). JR is constantly restructuring other contracts to pay off the current ones and squeeze in that extra FA signing. And we're not about to cut overpaid players because the cap hits would then be rendered immediately in full instead of over a period of years.

    I think we need to spend one year "rebuilding". I don't mean this in the traditional sense (hence the quotation marks), but we need to cut a lot of underperforming and/or overpaid players that are still under contact. The aforementioned Diehl, Rolle, and Canty, as well as guys like Tuck and Webster. Take all the cap hits up front. Yes the 2013 team would not be the greatest incarnation of the Giants in the world. But we would emerge in 2014 with a crapton of cap space and no overpaid underachievers on the team. From there, the possibilities are endless...

    PS: I am not in favor of firing Reese. I merely want us to cut the cruft out of the team to give us a better future return. I wouldn't mind one losing season if it meant we would be incredible strong the following year. Plus it would be less stressful i think...

  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by TuckandRolle View Post
    The last thing the Giants will do is try to rebuild while Eli Manning is in his prime. They want to win and win now. They'll fill voids and I expect the next 3 years to be very good for us.
    Historically, Reese isn't above replacing players after their first contract.

    Boss, Smith, Tollefson, Ross and Goff just to name a few.

    The idea is to be constantly "rebuilding" rather than totally collapse one year. What the Colts have managed to do is almost unprecendented in the NFL (especially if they keep it up going forward). I just wish we could do it while maintaining slightly stronger regular seasons.
    Last edited by Kruunch; 01-03-2013, 04:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TuckandRolle
    replied
    The last thing the Giants will do is try to rebuild while Eli Manning is in his prime. They want to win and win now. They'll fill voids and I expect the next 3 years to be very good for us.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morehead State
    replied
    Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
    Yup ... maybe Reese isn't so dumb after all

    Also it's important to note that the salary cap is based on league revenue (in part). So we could see a large jump in the cap within the next two years.
    So will every team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by Toadofsteel View Post
    The thing that's nice about this is that more of the cruft is going to be FA in 2014. Webby, Tuck, etc... and then we wouldn't have to suffer the cap hits to let them walk.
    Yup ... maybe Reese isn't so dumb after all

    Also it's important to note that the salary cap is based on league revenue (in part). So we could see a large jump in the cap within the next two years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Toadofsteel
    replied
    Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
    Cruz is an RFA ... if they can't come to terms, they'd tender him as a 1st and 3rd (meaning a team would have to give us a 1st and 3rd if we weren't willing to pay what they were to keep him).

    However if we went that route and Cruz has another 1000+ season in 2013, then in 2014 (when he'd be an unrestricted free agent) he'd easily be a $10+ million guy.

    Cruz will definitely be a Giant in 2013 (96% chance). 2014 is the big question. I'm hoping they give him a 5 year $40 million contract extension or something to that effect this year instead of a 4 year $45 million contract next year which is what he'll command if he performs.
    The thing that's nice about this is that more of the cruft is going to be FA in 2014. Webby, Tuck, etc... and then we wouldn't have to suffer the cap hits to let them walk.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercury View Post
    I always thought of it as smoke and mirrors, but now I see the money is future money and we will end up paying for it when the time comes, if it isn't already here.

    Safe to say we will not be making any sexy moves this off-season. Makes me wonder if we can even afford to resign Cruz.
    Cruz is an RFA ... if they can't come to terms, they'd tender him as a 1st and 3rd (meaning a team would have to give us a 1st and 3rd if we weren't willing to pay what they were to keep him).

    However if we went that route and Cruz has another 1000+ season in 2013, then in 2014 (when he'd be an unrestricted free agent) he'd easily be a $10+ million guy.

    Cruz will definitely be a Giant in 2013 (96% chance). 2014 is the big question. I'm hoping they give him a 5 year $40 million contract extension or something to that effect this year instead of a 4 year $45 million contract next year which is what he'll command if he performs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mercury
    replied
    I always thought of it as smoke and mirrors, but now I see the money is future money and we will end up paying for it when the time comes, if it isn't already here.

    Safe to say we will not be making any sexy moves this off-season. Makes me wonder if we can even afford to resign Cruz.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by Harooni View Post
    i know calulator but i was saying i didnt want to subtract the bonus wrong or guaranteed portion. it gets tricky sometimes.

    so i guess im asking you to do it. since you did rolles.
    K ... I beamed it to your tin foil hat. Let me know when you get it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Harooni
    replied
    Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
    START > Programs > Calculator

    Or grab one of these bad boys:

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40
    i know calulator but i was saying i didnt want to subtract the bonus wrong or guaranteed portion. it gets tricky sometimes.

    so i guess im asking you to do it. since you did rolles.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by Harooni View Post
    lol thanks i used this site and saw they had 2012 hits but was too lazy to break it down and did not want to do the math wrong. was hoping it was done so i can evaluate for myself who should be cut
    START > Programs > Calculator

    Or grab one of these bad boys:

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

    Leave a comment:


  • Harooni
    replied
    Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/

    Click on the individual to get the contract specifics. You save base salary and the first $150-250k of the "Misc. Bonus" which is typically the work out bonus (assuming you're cutting before OTAs). Signing bonuses and the remainder of the Misc. Bonus must be paid if cut.

    This doesn't include any weirdness in the contract itself (such as deferrals and what not which are rarities).

    At least that's how the aliens explained it to me.
    lol thanks i used this site and saw they had 2012 hits but was too lazy to break it down and did not want to do the math wrong. was hoping it was done so i can evaluate for myself who should be cut

    Leave a comment:


  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by Harooni View Post
    i thought it was the right moves but again mostly because we were trying to get under the cap.


    krunch can you do me a favor, i cant find the 2013 cap penalties for , canty ,diehl, tuck, webster,boley and baas . if cut or traded,

    thanks if you have them
    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/

    Click on the individual to get the contract specifics. You save base salary and the first $150-250k of the "Misc. Bonus" which is typically the work out bonus (assuming you're cutting before OTAs). Signing bonuses and the remainder of the Misc. Bonus must be paid if cut.

    This doesn't include any weirdness in the contract itself (such as deferrals and what not which are rarities).

    At least that's how the aliens explained it to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Harooni
    replied
    Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
    It wasn't we couldn't afford Boss or Smith ... we just didn't want to pay what they wanted.

    And losing Smith eventually led to us having Cruz and go on to win another SB.

    Not to mention both Smith and Boss went on to do absolutely nothing in the league.

    I'd call that pretty damn good management, wouldn't you?
    i thought it was the right moves but again mostly because we were trying to get under the cap.


    krunch can you do me a favor, i cant find the 2013 cap penalties for , canty ,diehl, tuck, webster,boley and baas . if cut or traded,

    thanks if you have them

    Leave a comment:


  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by Harooni View Post
    but that is exactly the point Krunch , we were already in such bad cap shape that we then could not afford to re-sign them. we also were forced to play guys we would normally not play because we could not afford to upgrade in FA.
    It wasn't we couldn't afford Boss or Smith ... we just didn't want to pay what they wanted.

    And losing Smith eventually led to us having Cruz and go on to win another SB.

    Not to mention both Smith and Boss went on to do absolutely nothing in the league.

    I'd call that pretty damn good management, wouldn't you?

    Leave a comment:

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