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Great breakdown of the Giants needs and mistakes.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    Could have been very concerned about Glenns injury history with his back, and also could have thought there were later OL who had similar ability, while there were no later HBs with similar ability to Wilson
    Definitely the latter was commented on.

    I didn't follow Glenn's injury history (didn't remember there being anything of note at the time). I'd have shied away from an OL with back problems too though.

    As for RB being a need ... Jacobs was released with the draft in mind and Bradshaw wasn't hurt the point where anyone thought his career was over. While Brown was a project I agree, the Giants were high on Ware and Scott (or said they were prior to the draft).

    But generally speaking, you draft the skill positions higher so I can't fault him for the logic. But that also means that short of getting handed a major blue chipper in the first two rounds, Giants fans shouldn't expect to see us draft an OL high in the draft in the near future (imo).
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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    • #32
      Sean Lee and Marvin Austin weren't even in the same draft.
      My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by gmen0820 View Post
        Sean Lee and Marvin Austin weren't even in the same draft.
        Joseph was the DT we took when Lee was still on the board, not Austin.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
          Can't find it ... basically (off of memory at the draft) Reese said that Cordy Glenn and David Wilson were so close, that he went with the position of most need (ironic considering OL was considered more in need than a RB by pretty much everybody).

          When asked about Doug Martin, Reese said he had Wilson rated higher and as the highest rated RB where we picked. Somehow that got condensed to "highest rated player". But I'll keep digging for it.
          Not being a wise guy . . . just sort of surprised that Reese would actually admit that he took the lower rated guy (even if it was true)

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          • #35
            Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
            Not being a wise guy . . . just sort of surprised that Reese would actually admit that he took the lower rated guy (even if it was true)
            The way he made it sound was that he basically had Wilson and Glenn rated almost identically (the difference being negligible in terms of the "tier" of the player) but with Glenn just slightly higher. He said he thought there was more value lower in the draft at OL than at RB which he saw as dropping sharply (the inference being that Wilson, Martin and Richardson being the only "tier 1" RBs in the draft).

            He may very well have had Wilson rated higher ... but everyone in the country had Wilson as a mid-second round pick and Glenn as a mid-first round pick. So he might have just been saying that as an explanation (no GM wants his pick labeled as a reach).

            My opinion is that he doesn't value OL as strongly as the skill positions (and DL in general). And you can make the case ... it's much harder to rate an OG than it is to rate a RB (especially trying to convert in your head how said person may work out in your system).
            Last edited by Kruunch; 01-03-2013, 03:17 PM.
            I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
              Joseph was the DT we took when Lee was still on the board, not Austin.
              Considering that Joseph is arguably our best DT at a really thin position, and Sean Lee has started an average of 7 games per season since entering the league, I'm not so sure that Reese really made a poor decision on that one.
              My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
                Joseph was the DT we took when Lee was still on the board, not Austin.
                Oops you're right ... mixing up my DTs.
                I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by gmen0820 View Post
                  Considering that Joseph is arguably our best DT at a really thin position, and Sean Lee has started an average of 7 games per season since entering the league, I'm not so sure that Reese really made a poor decision on that one.
                  True ... although Joseph has been questionable this year (good early on but disappeared midway through the season). But Lee has definitely been fragile so there ya go.
                  I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by gmen0820 View Post
                    Considering that Joseph is arguably our best DT at a really thin position, and Sean Lee has started an average of 7 games per season since entering the league, I'm not so sure that Reese really made a poor decision on that one.
                    I know a lot of people here think Joseph is very good, but I just don't notice him at all making impact plays during games and other teams seeem to just run up the middle on us with no problem. I just wonder what everyone see in him.

                    Good point about Lee's injuries though.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
                      I know a lot of people here think Joseph is very good, but I just don't notice him at all making impact plays during games and other teams seeem to just run up the middle on us with no problem. I just wonder what everyone see in him.

                      Good point about Lee's injuries though.
                      Joseph has been fairly excellent up until this year. He started this year really strong, but like the rest of our defense, kind of disappeared.

                      DT's don't tend to be as flashy as pass rushers. When a QB has to scramble and throw it away, it's usually because the DT collapsed the middle of the pocket.

                      In general our run defense philosophy was fairly poor this year (Nascar my butt).
                      I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
                        I know a lot of people here think Joseph is very good, but I just don't notice him at all making impact plays during games and other teams seeem to just run up the middle on us with no problem. I just wonder what everyone see in him.

                        Good point about Lee's injuries though.
                        Joseph is a really solid DT. He can't do it all alone, but that's mainly because he is, like I said, really solid -- and not an elite type guy. He held up well, but the unit itself was pretty mediocre because it was decimated by injuries and as a result was razor-thin depth-wise.
                        My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
                          No, that's pretty much exactly what it means. Pressures don't mean anything to me. A QB is pressured on every play where the ball is hiked to him.

                          The oline, by and large, played fine. Having said that, it was a piece meal line. Locklear is a stop gap measure, not the future. DD is pretty much at the end of his rope. Beatty is an FA this off season. Accordingly the oline is something we have to look at this year (one would think).
                          Pressures mean a lot especially to Eli. When your timing patterns are off there is a good chance for a bad throw or the QB tossing it out of bounds. One step closer to a 3 and out. Remember, he ain't exactly fleet of foot. A pressure to RG3 or even Romo ain't the same to Eli. Eli is considered a statue in today's game of mobile QBs. And the OL played OK. 4/5 of that line could be upgraded. Not saying that it will because the teams don't play with monopoly money. But Boothe, Baas, Diehl, and even Snee could all be replaced. Beatty is the only servicable one on the line. Reese is going to have start addressing the OL like it is an integral part of this team. Thinking he can continually strike gold in the later rounds and in FA is not wise. Pat Flaherty can't be expected to continually create miracles. The moment they let Petigout go I said they should start rebuilding with quality linemen and dont' reach come draft time or overpay in free agency.
                          “Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”
                          ― George Carlin

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
                            No, that's pretty much exactly what it means. Pressures don't mean anything to me. A QB is pressured on every play where the ball is hiked to him.

                            The oline, by and large, played fine. Having said that, it was a piece meal line. Locklear is a stop gap measure, not the future. DD is pretty much at the end of his rope. Beatty is an FA this off season. Accordingly the oline is something we have to look at this year (one would think).
                            Who cares if it doesn't mean a thing to you. It matters. Pressuring a QB to force an errant throw or disrupting the timing of pass play is something that any defense would want to do on a consistent basis because it's the next best thing to stopping the play via a sack. Lets use our own defense as an example. We finished top 3 in sacks in 2011, but bottom 6 in QB pressures. Our pass defense was ranked 29th. Teams with less sacks than us, but a higher rank in QB pressures - had higher ranked pass defenses. It isn't pointless, it's significant.

                            Just because Eli isn't giving up many sacks to defenses doesn't mean our OLine is awesome.


                            “Basically just stay with your man,” cornerback Janoris Jenkins said. “Follow him everywhere you go. Even if he goes to the bathroom, follow him.”

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                            • #44
                              Joseph is a above avg DT.. I mean, when u miss on guys like Marvin Austin and u gotta have Rocky Bernard and Marvin Austin filling in most of the yr for Canty, ur gonna notice running up the gut, becuase Linval is only one guy... He had 50plus tackles, 2FT, 1FF, 4sacks, 2TFL.. A very solid season indeed.. Hes a piece reese nailed right on the head, and god forbid where we'd be if we didn't have him while Canty was down and out...

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