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Great breakdown of the Giants needs and mistakes.

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  • Great breakdown of the Giants needs and mistakes.

    Don't know if any of you have posted this before but this was great read IMO. This is just a piece of the article/blog, you can read the rest on by clicking on their link below:

    http://www.ultimatenyg.com/2012-arti...-42-phl-7.html



    6) Last week, we commented with some stats on the Jerry Reese distribution of R1-R3 draft picks taken from 2007-2012:

    WR 6
    DL 4
    CB 4
    S 2
    OL, RB, TE, LB 1


    So out of 20 picks, the Giants have taken a whopping total of 2 LBers and OL COMBINED! Restating our comment, "33% of your starters have gotten 10% of the (coveted) resources. And it has reared its ugly head in the past two games (vs ATL and BAL)." It is a passing league, but you still have to keep your QB upright and give the team a chance at converting three 4th down and shorts.



  • #2
    Jerry Resse's formula in the early rounds has been a staple mark on our team, pass rushers, play makers at the wr position. Now it's time to beef up the o-line, this offense has the weapons, it just needs the big guys to pave the way.

    Giants fan since the early 80s

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    • #3
      hit the bulls eye the line didnt give a lot of sacks but pressure and hits were way up more so at the end of the year no qb does well when there hit and pressured 15 times a game.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by flashnando View Post
        Don't know if any of you have posted this before but this was great read IMO. This is just a piece of the article/blog, you can read the rest on by clicking on their link below:

        http://www.ultimatenyg.com/2012-arti...-42-phl-7.html
        Eli was the least sacked QB in the league this year.
        I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by flashnando View Post
          Don't know if any of you have posted this before but this was great read IMO. This is just a piece of the article/blog, you can read the rest on by clicking on their link below:

          http://www.ultimatenyg.com/2012-arti...-42-phl-7.html
          This is nice to know, but now you need to add what free agents were signed in the same time period to get the whole picture.
          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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          • #6
            correct he wasnt sacked a lot but he was hit and pressured way to much at the end of the year and it showed in his performance

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            • #7
              i don't mind reese' philosophy on the early rounds.

              and i don't think he's so rigid in that philosophy that if there was a LBer or OL prospect that the scouts were really excited about he would pass on them because of some strategy.

              someone without two kids under the age of 5 needs to undertake the research project of looking at LBers and OLmen taken right after our picks (reaching half a round early to pick almost any player is stupid) to see who we've passed up on and whether they're contributing at their positions in a way that says we should have taken them.
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Originally posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
                i don't mind reese' philosophy on the early rounds.

                and i don't think he's so rigid in that philosophy that if there was a LBer or OL prospect that the scouts were really excited about he would pass on them because of some strategy.

                someone without two kids under the age of 5 needs to undertake the research project of looking at LBers and OLmen taken right after our picks (reaching half a round early to pick almost any player is stupid) to see who we've passed up on and whether they're contributing at their positions in a way that says we should have taken them.
                This past draft, we took David Wilson instead of Cordy Glenn. Reese even admitted that Cordy Glenn was rated higher.
                I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
                  This past draft, we took David Wilson instead of Cordy Glenn. Reese even admitted that Cordy Glenn was rated higher.
                  i know. i was referring to older drafts (3 years +) so we have a better idea of what the players have become.
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    i look at it like this, we have the skilled positions, aside from corner, all figured out. this draft has no reason to not be a trenches draft

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
                      i know. i was referring to older drafts (3 years +) so we have a better idea of what the players have become.
                      Two years ago we took JPP over Mike Iupati in the first round. While that worked out for us, at the time Iupati was considered an NFL ready offensive lineman (and a need for us) and JPP a project (due to his short span of playing football and small school background).

                      In the same draft we took Marvin Austin (DT) in the second round over Sean Lee (ILB). Austin had more measurables but Lee had a better pedigree and resume (and we needed a LB desperately that year ... we took Dillard in the 4th instead who was cut the following year).

                      With the rare exception of Beatty and Sintim (both second rounders in the same draft), Reese has treated the offensive line and linebackers as positions of lesser draft priority that he's thrown a lot of lower drafted players / FAs at to see what stuck. We've had one major FA signing to each under Reese (Boley and Baas). The strategy seems to be to see who works out from the rank and file and then bolster via FA (not agreeing or disagreeing with the strategy ... just illustrating my conclusions).

                      P.S. - These just came to mind recently ... I'd have to do some homework to find older instances but I'm sure they're there.
                      I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
                        Two years ago we took JPP over Mike Iupati in the first round. While that worked out for us, at the time Iupati was considered an NFL ready offensive lineman (and a need for us) and JPP a project (due to his short span of playing football and small school background).

                        In the same draft we took Marvin Austin (DT) in the second round over Sean Lee (ILB). Austin had more measurables but Lee had a better pedigree and resume (and we needed a LB desperately that year ... we took Dillard in the 4th instead who was cut the following year).

                        With the rare exception of Beatty and Sintim (both second rounders in the same draft), Reese has treated the offensive line and linebackers as positions of lesser draft priority that he's thrown a lot of lower drafted players / FAs at to see what stuck. We've had one major FA signing to each under Reese (Boley and Baas). The strategy seems to be to see who works out from the rank and file and then bolster via FA (not agreeing or disagreeing with the strategy ... just illustrating my conclusions).

                        P.S. - These just came to mind recently ... I'd have to do some homework to find older instances but I'm sure they're there.
                        thanks. i'd call passing on sean lee for Austin an obvious miss. there's no way you could say the same thing about JPP and Iupati.

                        i still question whether they're lesser priorities, without more evidence. he definitely has a preference for high skill early, but i don't know if that is just best player available or whether he's purposefully passing on obvious solutions at LBer and OL because he doesn't see the value of picking those positions early.

                        to me, JPP would support the best player available strategy, albeit he was thought of as very raw as you said. i think most fans are willing to reach for players of need in the early rounds, and Reese probably would rather fill his team with the most skill/talent as possible and deal with overlaps as opposed to looking back on picks of need and having more busts he has to try and explain away with "well we needed x so we took him".

                        our nascar thing i don't think was a conscience decision, but was the result of drafting based on BPA and ending up with a bunch of great DEs. that's a better problem to have than a bunch of potentially unusable players because you turned a blind eye to talent and made decisions based primarily on your next 16 games.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
                          thanks. i'd call passing on sean lee for Austin an obvious miss. there's no way you could say the same thing about JPP and Iupati.

                          i still question whether they're lesser priorities, without more evidence. he definitely has a preference for high skill early, but i don't know if that is just best player available or whether he's purposefully passing on obvious solutions at LBer and OL because he doesn't see the value of picking those positions early.

                          to me, JPP would support the best player available strategy, albeit he was thought of as very raw as you said. i think most fans are willing to reach for players of need in the early rounds, and Reese probably would rather fill his team with the most skill/talent as possible and deal with overlaps as opposed to looking back on picks of need and having more busts he has to try and explain away with "well we needed x so we took him".

                          our nascar thing i don't think was a conscience decision, but was the result of drafting based on BPA and ending up with a bunch of great DEs. that's a better problem to have than a bunch of potentially unusable players because you turned a blind eye to talent and made decisions based primarily on your next 16 games.
                          Very well put! After all this talk i wish the draft was tomorrow LOL. Can't wait for draft to begin, im so curious what Reese and company will do, what we as fans want is different but what the Giants will actually is another thing. In Reese i trust

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
                            thanks. i'd call passing on sean lee for Austin an obvious miss. there's no way you could say the same thing about JPP and Iupati.
                            Well all of this is hindsight. JPP was the sexier and more aggressive pick ... Iupati was the safer pick. Obviously if JPP didn't work out (or if he goes south now as well as our offensive line) then we'd look back and say "wow, that was a miss". You can also make the argument (and fairly valid one) that the difference between a late first round OG and a late fourth round OG isn't all that great (while the same can't be said for DEs since they're so coveted).

                            The Austin pick was the exact same deal. A bonafide top 10 draft prospect who slipped due to being kicked out of school but with immense measurables and resume. He took the gamble but this time it hasn't paid off (yet). Then again, for as good as Sean Lee is (and I wanted him SOOOOO badly) he can't seem to stay on the field 100% either.

                            So my love of typing brings us to this ... Everything is amazingly clear in the rear view mirror.

                            i still question whether they're lesser priorities, without more evidence. he definitely has a preference for high skill early, but i don't know if that is just best player available or whether he's purposefully passing on obvious solutions at LBer and OL because he doesn't see the value of picking those positions early.
                            I bet he had this exact conversation in his own head and since it wasn't obvious, he went with what he thought best ("him" being the FO in general).

                            to me, JPP would support the best player available strategy, albeit he was thought of as very raw as you said. i think most fans are willing to reach for players of need in the early rounds, and Reese probably would rather fill his team with the most skill/talent as possible and deal with overlaps as opposed to looking back on picks of need and having more busts he has to try and explain away with "well we needed x so we took him".
                            JPP was a wish and a prayer (not to mention 14 back flips in a row by a DE prospect). Tons of physical measurables but not off the charts. Conversely, an OG at that spot who might be "good" but not considered a blue chipper just wasn't as sexy. The JPP pick definitely wasn't BPA though (at least by any measurable other than back flips).

                            our nascar thing i don't think was a conscience decision, but was the result of drafting based on BPA and ending up with a bunch of great DEs. that's a better problem to have than a bunch of potentially unusable players because you turned a blind eye to talent and made decisions based primarily on your next 16 games.
                            Spags started the Nascar package in 2007 with Osi, Tuck and Strahan (remember Tuck playing DT?). It was a defensive wrinkle that lasted for a few games and worked especially well against teams who couldn't run the ball well. It's not a defensive scheme (although we've used it as such over the past 3 years to our regret).

                            The idea was (and still is) to put the best players on the field (that's why Kiwi is playing LBer). Unfortunately, the "best players" aren't necessarily the best at every position. There's a reason why DTs are usually 300lbs+ and SAM backers aren't. This is one philosophy I don't agree with (sort of like Andy Reid promoting an offensive line coach to Defensive Coordinator /facepalm).
                            I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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                            • #15
                              JR's done a great job in the early rounds which is important because that's where you have the best chance of getting the most talent. So, at least he's not blowing $$$ on bad picks in rounds 1 - 3.

                              His later rounds, 4 - 7, leave something to be desired. Except for 2007 (and to early to fully judge the 2011 draft), JR's picked some real whoppers that I think could have been signed as UDFA's instead of using actual picks on.

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