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Victor Cruz Expected to Seek $8 - 10 Million Per Season

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  • #91
    Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
    True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.
    he is pretty unique and is a good fit with Eli. again if we dont have other ridiculous contracts and cap hits , locking him up would be a no brainer the man is in his prime

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    • #92
      Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
      True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.
      Look at what Pierre Garçon received from the Redskins. If the Giants won't pay Cruz, some other team will.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
        True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.
        Would you risk drafting a WR in the first round though knowing our holes?
        Mood: WOOF!

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        • #94
          Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
          This x100. I think this approach is the smartest way. If I had to choose between a Healthy Nicks or a Healthy Cruz for 10 million, it would be Nicks every day. I agree with Ranier that Cruz lacks physicality. If you look at the top end WRs, they all have that physicality about them. To determine a WR's worth, the question you have to ask I think is, how well would he do on a bad team? I have no doubts that Nicks would be able to battle other defenders for poorly thrown balls in lots of traffic. Cruz? I don't think so.
          Nicks having a healthy season doesn't mean nicks is now healthy. Everyone keeps wanting to evalute nicks as if he's 100%. he's not. his style of play is wearing him down.

          and we may be in a situation where we can get cruz at a discount based on negotiating with him now. put him off for a year and subject him to potentially getting injured and reducing his market value significantly, and the trade off is if we choose to go with cruz we may have to pay alot more for him.

          i'd definitely prefer a healthy nicks to cruz. few wouldn't. but that's not where we find ourselves right now.
          sigpic

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          • #95
            Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
            True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.
            He's a damn good talent who has worked in this system for three years and had back to back 1,000 yard seasons. I can't imagine replacing him with a draft pick and not losing ground.

            If we go for WR first round, the problems we are having do not get addressed once again.
            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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            • #96
              Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
              He's a damn good talent who has worked in this system for three years and had back to back 1,000 yard seasons. I can't imagine replacing him with a draft pick and not losing ground.
              well said

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              • #97
                heres a question just for the sake of debate, but it is relevant: suppose we kept nicks and let cruz go in some alternate dimension. could nicks be a slot threat the way cruz is, not in how they accomplish the end result, but in the success of the end result? in less complicated words, can nicks achieve a level of success comparable to the level of success Cruz has had from the slot, even if its through different ways? IE, using Nicks like NO uses Colston...


                I only ask bc the one thing that could falsely elevate Cruz's worth is the play from the slot. Hes amazing, maybe the best at it. But a big part of that is the scheme. He's an amazing wr i hate coming from a position of letting him walk bc it feels like im slighting him, im just trying to think about it from all angles

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
                  This x100. I think this approach is the smartest way. If I had to choose between a Healthy Nicks or a Healthy Cruz for 10 million, it would be Nicks every day. I agree with Ranier that Cruz lacks physicality. If you look at the top end WRs, they all have that physicality about them. To determine a WR's worth, the question you have to ask I think is, how well would he do on a bad team? I have no doubts that Nicks would be able to battle other defenders for poorly thrown balls in lots of traffic. Cruz? I don't think so.
                  .Except that it is looking like we may never get a 100% healthy Nicks for a full season, so that has to be taken into account when comparing the two.

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                  • #99
                    H
                    Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                    heres a question just for the sake of debate, but it is relevant: suppose we kept nicks and let cruz go in some alternate dimension. could nicks be a slot threat the way cruz is, not in how they accomplish the end result, but in the success of the end result? in less complicated words, can nicks achieve a level of success comparable to the level of success Cruz has had from the slot, even if its through different ways? IE, using Nicks like NO uses Colston...I only ask bc the one thing that could falsely elevate Cruz's worth is the play from the slot. Hes amazing, maybe the best at it. But a big part of that is the scheme. He's an amazing wr i hate coming from a position of letting him walk bc it feels like im slighting him, im just trying to think about it from all angles
                    We don't know if Nicks will ever be 100% again though.
                    Mood: WOOF!

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                    • Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                      heres a question just for the sake of debate, but it is relevant: suppose we kept nicks and let cruz go in some alternate dimension. could nicks be a slot threat the way cruz is, not in how they accomplish the end result, but in the success of the end result? in less complicated words, can nicks achieve a level of success comparable to the level of success Cruz has had from the slot, even if its through different ways? IE, using Nicks like NO uses Colston...


                      I only ask bc the one thing that could falsely elevate Cruz's worth is the play from the slot. Hes amazing, maybe the best at it. But a big part of that is the scheme. He's an amazing wr i hate coming from a position of letting him walk bc it feels like im slighting him, im just trying to think about it from all angles
                      Cruz can work anywhere on the field and is one of the best slot receivers in the League. I don't think that's where Nicks' value is to the Giants and if he worked in the slot would be be as effective as Cruz?

                      As with every season, you work on the player contracts you have to and take care of next season, next season.
                      Last edited by RoanokeFan; 01-03-2013, 01:36 PM.
                      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                      • Originally posted by Rudyy View Post
                        HWe don't know if Nicks will ever be 100% again though.
                        that doesnt necessarily negate the question. can a less than 100% nicks attain a level of success from the slot as Cruz? thats got to be an angle looked at? and if not Nicks, then can a Randle, or JJ attain a level of success from the slot comparable to Cruz? Doesnt have to be through the same measures/ways, but the end result has to be the same; a consistent, high level of success.

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                        • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                          Cruz can work anywhere on the field and is one of the best slot receivers in the League. I don't think that's where Nicks' value is to the Giants and if if worked in the slot would be be as effective as Cruz?

                          As with every season, you work on the player contracts you have to and take care of next season, next season.
                          oh dont get me wrong, i agree with ur cruz analysis 1000%. thats why i question if we can attain similar levels of success, even if by different measures/ways, ie like by an aggregate of a combo of players even. the reason why, is a huge part of cruzs success in our offense is his play out of the slot. If we can attain that success through different, and more importantly, cheaper means, that has a huge implication on the cruz contract situation. see what i mean?

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                          • and to continue/add, IF nicks can be as effective out of the slot, does he become the better choice at keeping bc of his added presence on the outside?

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                            • Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                              heres a question just for the sake of debate, but it is relevant: suppose we kept nicks and let cruz go in some alternate dimension. could nicks be a slot threat the way cruz is, not in how they accomplish the end result, but in the success of the end result? in less complicated words, can nicks achieve a level of success comparable to the level of success Cruz has had from the slot, even if its through different ways? IE, using Nicks like NO uses Colston...


                              I only ask bc the one thing that could falsely elevate Cruz's worth is the play from the slot. Hes amazing, maybe the best at it. But a big part of that is the scheme. He's an amazing wr i hate coming from a position of letting him walk bc it feels like im slighting him, im just trying to think about it from all angles
                              If Nicks stays healthy he can be a top 10 if not top 5 receiver in this league, from his natural "x" position. I'd say a slot receiver is more valuable than an "x" receiver in most scenarios(just because you have to be a more versatile player to play out of the slot, more routes you must be able to run effectively). Personally I think Nicks is a better player than Cruz, but this is when he is healthy so I think the difference in value that each brings to this team is marginal

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                              • Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                                oh dont get me wrong, i agree with ur cruz analysis 1000%. thats why i question if we can attain similar levels of success, even if by different measures/ways, ie like by an aggregate of a combo of players even. the reason why, is a huge part of cruzs success in our offense is his play out of the slot. If we can attain that success through different, and more importantly, cheaper means, that has a huge implication on the cruz contract situation. see what i mean?
                                Having Cruz back in the slot and Randle with a year of experience and Nicks (A healthy Nicks that is) on the outside could be unbelievably deadly... I think Randle has fantastic upside if he puts the work in. Could be a way better option than MM IMO. Getting back to the original topic.. We HAVE to pay cruz. 8-10 million seems fair. He's been healthy (knock on wood) and consistent. His rapport with Eli is there and will always get better with practice/games. With those 3 Recivers and resigning Hixon our Recievers are more than adequate at this point.. Get it done JR!
                                Stop Booing Tiki Barber.

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