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  • #46
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    ELI DECIDES RUN OR PASS AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE
    technically, the defense is deciding that, as eli will pick the run play or pass play KG CALLS based on the defensive look...and eli decided run/pass based on the gameplan KG installs weekly. Dont just go to the other end of the spectrum and claim eli has total freedom to do as he pleases just to counter the argument its all on KG. its on both, but imo, mostly on KG. Eli can only choose between the 3 plays sent in from what I have read and understand. those 3 plays are based on the formation that KG sent in as well, meaning ive never seen us come out in a I formation, and eli audibles into a shotgun formation play...Eli is making his decisions based on the parameters of KGs scheme and instruction. The decisions eli will make still has a ton of input from KG on when and why to make certain decisions...to try and excuse KG bc "eli decides run or pass" which is a slanted statement anyways, is as comical as people blaming solely kg.

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    • #47
      technically, even further, eli isnt "deciding" anything. KGs offense requires and functions on the qb making the "correct" adjustment at the LOS. Eli isnt making that decision based on his own free will and feeling at the time lmfao, he is required to make the decisions based on the parameters or formula even that KG installs. its kgs offense right? eli is attempting to make the correct decision BASED ON KGS OFFENSE, meaning, KG is the one actually deciding why and when we're going to run or pass, elis just the one who has to execute it correctly. eli is just looking for the info/data that the offensive scheme, kgs scheme, runs off of. im gonna guess this is prob too complicated a topic and just end it there.

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      • #48
        A glaring problem with Gilbrides offense is the the lack of integrating players into the offense, many talk about the complexities one must learn before they get on the field, the difficulties of picking up the playbook and knowing all assignments, it restricts different personal matches and mismatches one could create,

        it's based on players knowledge versus skill set, we all said Randle should have played more, some say he was running wrong routes, but if the complexities were lowered and the schemes were based on talent and skill set he may have shined brighter then most, he came into the NFL with a complete route tree,


        Gilbride said that Nicks and Bradshaw playing was hurting them, then said that playing them instead of others is the best option, that alone should get the organization to evaluate him,

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        • #49
          Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
          ELI DECIDES RUN OR PASS AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE
          Don't bother. They won't let the facts get in the way of their opinions.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Drez View Post
            Don't bother. They won't let the facts get in the way of their opinions.
            What is it about that simple phrase that is so elusive for some members?
            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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            • #51
              well bc its such a slanted statement. its not a fact really. thats why. yes, eli is carrying out when to run and pass based on KG and his offense, but how is that eli "deciding"? all eli is doing is trying to parrot the info practiced throughout the week installing the gameplan. he doesnt just wheel and deal and make things up as he goes as to the criteria for run or pass audibles, he has a very specific set of criteria, BASED ON KGS SCHEME, to run or pass. and even then, bc he "decides" one way or the other alleviates KG??? Eli isnt changing into a play he just thought off and drew on the sand, hes checking into another play KG called. the checks are sent in with the actual play call, people realize that right? I guess eli is "deciding" if deciding means kg gives eli 3 plays, and when to switch to another play...but that would still have little to do with the success of the play in terms of eli changing it. wouldnt the design of the play still be the most relevant factor for all the "its execution" excuses that alleviate kg? eli can change into pass or run all day long, if the play is poorly designed or not attacking the defense effectively, it aint gonna work.

              u realize eli is counting the front 7 or 8, thats how he "decides", to change into another 1 of the plays kg called in. my point is, saying eli calls run or pass in hopes of alleviating kg is no different than people sayings its solely kg based on faulty logic
              Last edited by giantsfan420; 01-09-2013, 06:11 PM.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by TheShouldersOf View Post
                A glaring problem with Gilbrides offense is the the lack of integrating players into the offense, many talk about the complexities one must learn before they get on the field, the difficulties of picking up the playbook and knowing all assignments, it restricts different personal matches and mismatches one could create,

                it's based on players knowledge versus skill set, we all said Randle should have played more, some say he was running wrong routes, but if the complexities were lowered and the schemes were based on talent and skill set he may have shined brighter then most, he came into the NFL with a complete route tree,


                Gilbride said that Nicks and Bradshaw playing was hurting them, then said that playing them instead of others is the best option, that alone should get the organization to evaluate him,
                Gilbride does only give players what they can digest. I'm sure when Randle was out there he wasn't required to know 5 different stems on a play, but probably only 1 or 2. There was an article a while back (I think from the WSJ) where KG said as much. I think it was Nicks' second year when the article was written, but he said he only gives Nicks like 3 reads, but back when he was with Houton he'd give Jefferies or Givins 5 or 6 different reads.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                  What is it about that simple phrase that is so elusive for some members?
                  Don't get me wrong, I like debating/arguing with people (probably more than most, lol), but sometimes there just comes a point where you realize that you're just wasting breath.

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                  • #54
                    Roanoke as a mod any answers as to my query. Again i dont care that it says you started the thread just curious as to how that happened. I assume i did not link it correctly is that right.?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                      well bc its such a slanted statement. its not a fact really. thats why. yes, eli is carrying out when to run and pass based on KG and his offense, but how is that eli "deciding"? all eli is doing is trying to parrot the info practiced throughout the week installing the gameplan. he doesnt just wheel and deal and make things up as he goes as to the criteria for run or pass audibles, he has a very specific set of criteria, BASED ON KGS SCHEME, to run or pass. and even then, bc he "decides" one way or the other alleviates KG??? Eli isnt changing into a play he just thought off and drew on the sand, hes checking into another play KG called. the checks are sent in with the actual play call, people realize that right? I guess eli is "deciding" if deciding means kg gives eli 3 plays, and when to switch to another play...but that would still have little to do with the success of the play in terms of eli changing it. wouldnt the design of the play still be the most relevant factor for all the "its execution" excuses that alleviate kg? eli can change into pass or run all day long, if the play is poorly designed or not attacking the defense effectively, it aint gonna work.

                      u realize eli is counting the front 7 or 8, thats how he "decides", to change into another 1 of the plays kg called in. my point is, saying eli calls run or pass in hopes of alleviating kg is no different than people sayings its solely kg based on faulty logic
                      How is it faulty logic? Eli decides if it's going to be a run or a pass depending on what he sees in the defense. Even just past counting how many are in the box, it could even be based on how the DL and LB are lined up, etc....

                      And I love how people ***** about 3 shotgun draws in a row like that was something more than a one off.

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                      • #56
                        drez, quick question. lets say u work at mcdonalds. the manager explains to you, that if u run out of the special sauce for a big mac, use a mayo and ketchup mixture(off topic, im almost sure thats what the special sauce is lol). Ur working ur shift, and run out of special sauce, so u follow ur managers instruction, and replace it with ketchup/mayo mixture...did u decide to do anything?


                        i think we have varying understandings of what it is to "decide"...i mean in a very basic, simple way, eli is "deciding" run or pass. but the method of his decision process will be almost all formulated on kgs instruction. so to what extent is ELI deciding or KG deciding and Eli executing instruction?

                        sorry for the lame analogy btw, didnt have time to make dinner so i got myself a bigmac for the first time in years lol

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                        • #57
                          the reason i ask is bc it seems when people go "eli decides run or pass", bc its such a slanted statement, its implying hes making the decision of his own valition. when in fact, ANY "decision" eli can make running the offense, will be predicated on KGs scheme/offense/instruction. Eli is OPERATING kgs offense, therefore, anything that the offense is doing, is under KG...NOT eli. eli is merely an extension of KG on the field. ever hear peyton being so positively regarded for his ability to be "the OC on the field"?? he wasn't "deciding" anything, he was merely EXECUTING what the offense dictates vs ANY situation bc peyton understood MOORE'S offense so well...

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                            drez, quick question. lets say u work at mcdonalds. the manager explains to you, that if u run out of the special sauce for a big mac, use a mayo and ketchup mixture(off topic, im almost sure thats what the special sauce is lol). Ur working ur shift, and run out of special sauce, so u follow ur managers instruction, and replace it with ketchup/mayo mixture...did u decide to do anything?


                            i think we have varying understandings of what it is to "decide"...i mean in a very basic, simple way, eli is "deciding" run or pass. but the method of his decision process will be almost all formulated on kgs instruction. so to what extent is ELI deciding or KG deciding and Eli executing instruction?

                            sorry for the lame analogy btw, didnt have time to make dinner so i got myself a bigmac for the first time in years lol
                            The special sauce is a little more like Russian Dressing than mayo and ketchup (which is the base for Russian; add pickle relish, Worcestershire sauce, some hard boiled egg, seasoning).

                            A more apt analogy would be Eli is a chef, and KG, the executive chef, says, "We're running a seafood marinara with shrimp, calamari, and mussels. We're running low on mussels, so if we run out you can either sub it with scallops, oysters, or clams, etc. However, seeing as I trust in your skills and judgement, if you feel like it you can just change the special and run another dish."

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                              Even if gilbride's offense was average, do we really want Eli at this point in his career trying to learn an entirely new offense?

                              Peyton has played in the exact same system his entire career. In fact, most of the top QBs have. The only one that has seen any sort of significant system changes is Brady.
                              I have no problem with our current offense, but I don't believe it would be a problem at all for Eli to learn a new system, and I think he'd be fine in it. That being said, there's no reason to change a successful system, let alone one our QB has been in his entire career. Tweak, adjust, evolve, yes...but I'm sure that will happen this offseason. We have too good of a coaching staff for it not to.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                                the reason i ask is bc it seems when people go "eli decides run or pass", bc its such a slanted statement, its implying hes making the decision of his own valition. when in fact, ANY "decision" eli can make running the offense, will be predicated on KGs scheme/offense/instruction. Eli is OPERATING kgs offense, therefore, anything that the offense is doing, is under KG...NOT eli. eli is merely an extension of KG on the field. ever hear peyton being so positively regarded for his ability to be "the OC on the field"?? he wasn't "deciding" anything, he was merely EXECUTING what the offense dictates vs ANY situation bc peyton understood MOORE'S offense so well...
                                I understand that Eli is operating KGs system on the field, however, the coaches trust in his judgement to get into the right play. It isn't like Eli has a rigid calculus that determines run/pass.

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