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  • Jppallday
    started a topic Could Cruz leave?

    Could Cruz leave?

    I honestly think that there is a chance that Victor Cruz might not be on the team next year. He is seeking a lot of money and the Giants may not have the cap space for him, especially if they want to keep Hakeem Nicks who is the better receiver in my eyes. So what happens if he signs with another team? I'm assuming we will give him our 1st round tender. If he leaves do we get the draft pick this year or next year? And do you guys think we go WR in the first 2 rounds again?

  • gmen46
    replied
    Originally posted by Giantsfan241 View Post
    You are just a clueless "omg cruz is so good hes so explosive best slot in the league omg" when really he didnt have that good of a year, lol, a few break out games but the rest have been average or abysmall.
    All right, I'm done arguing with a complete tool. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. This board knows it. And the Giants organization doesn't give a **** about your ****eyed thinking on this matter.

    But, can't help myself--Question, first. How many back-to-back thousand yard receivers have the Giants had in last 13 years (when the NFL began to become "a passing league"and passing yards overall began to increase)?

    Toomer (5 years, his 4th-8th seasons 1999-2003)

    Nicks (2 years, his 2nd-3rd seasons)

    Cruz (2 years, his 2nd-3rd seasons and counting

    That's it.

    Even Burress did not put back-to-back 1000 yard seasons together for the Giants. He did it once, early in his career for the Steelers. But not with us.

    You say Look at your stats? Why? Here's the thing. You don't know their meaning to a team.

    You obviously don't know, so I'll tell you: opposing teams study upcoming opponents. If you did not anticipate that Cruz' ave yds per catch would decrease this year from last year, then you need some lessons in how teams prepare for star players.

    You dismiss the fact that in spite of Nicks missing games or playing with injured foot and knee every week after Week Two, and in spite of the fact that even if Nicks played healthy most of the season Cruz would still have drawn closer, double, at times triple coverage all season long, Cruz had more receptions and 1 more TD than in 2011.

    Yeah, everybody and his mother knows Cruz had over 1500 yards last year, and nearly 1100 yards this year. So you noticed that too. So astute of you. But you seem to not realize that 1500 yards for WRs is still a pretty rare phenomenon. Very few WRs that do achieve that, do so on a repeated basis, or even ever again. It's the equivalent to a RB gaining 2000 yards in a season. Very few have done it, and none--except maybe Dickerson??--repeat that. Does that mean those few RBs should be released or allowed to go into FA their 4th year because they did not repeat 2000 yards? (I'll answer for you---"NO").

    How many 1500+ yard seasons has the mighty (the consensus Best Receiver Today) Calvin Johnson had ? Two. The last 2 seasons, his 5th and 6th seasons. And Calvin set a new NFL record in yards in a season, to accomplish that rare feat of a second 1500+ consecutive season.

    How many 1500+ yard seasons has Larry Fitzgerald had? NONE. ZERO. NADA. ZILCH. He did have 3 seasons with barely 1400+, though, including 2011. And he's been considered among the best 2 or 3 receivers in the league the last 8 years. But guess what? This year he dropped from 1411 yards, 17.6 ave, and 8 TDs in 2011 to 798 yards, 11.2 ave, and 4 TDs in 2012. I guess AZ will release him and his $15+ million per year contract, huh?

    How many has Welker had? One, in 2011.

    And, yes, Cruz is considered to be one of the best 2-3 slot receivers in the game today. That entails being reliable, and the ability to make clutch receptions when needed, not lots of yards necessarily.

    You are focusing on 1 stat and 1 stat only, to the exclusion of every other important aspect of a receiver's worth to a team. That 1100 yards is not as good as 1500 yards. Forget that 1000+ yards is an important contribution to a team's offense. Forget he had more TDs than last year (even though it's one, it's still more). Forget that even though Cruz had far more attention paid to him this year, for all 16 games, he had more receptions. Forget that very few WRs have the same yards every game--Cruz is the only excellent (and, yes, he is excellent at his job) receiver to have more yards one game than he does the next, according to your criteria.

    And I'M the "clueless" one.

    Well, prepare to be upset this off season. Because Cruz will get paid, he will get paid well, and he will be paid by the Giants.

    A M F and peace out.

    Leave a comment:


  • DIPSET_ALL_DAY
    replied
    Originally posted by Giantsfan241 View Post
    I can't believe people really think that a player who gave us 1000 yards and 10 tds is irreplaceable.
    He broke Toomer's record for a reason. He has pure talent, and his story of coming up from nothing is great for this organization. Whether you like it or not, he's going to remain a Giant and deserves a big pay day.

    You compared Randle's one game performance against Victor Cruz' two break out seasons and don't want to acknowledge that Wes Welker is also playing with one of the best QB's to play the game and has more seasons under his belt. Before he was with Brady he did NOTHING, and he was having contract disputes for a reason.

    Who will we go for in the free agency to replace Cruz simple because you think we should be cheap and not give him the money he deserves? Because you know, you can't tell me someone out of the draft can replace Cruz because that's just asinine. Cruz is young and has plenty of room to develop into one of the best slot receivers.He brings a spark to the Giants offense that we haven't had since Nick's rookie season..

    Leave a comment:


  • Giantsfan241
    replied
    So what if he has played more seasons? There's no point in comparing their first 3 seasons if they barely played.. 19 starts to 1 start.. really?

    Leave a comment:


  • DIPSET_ALL_DAY
    replied
    Wes Welker also has played more seasons than Cruz. Your argument is still flawed..why don't you just admit you're wrong?

    Leave a comment:


  • Giantsfan241
    replied
    I can't believe people really think that a player who gave us 1000 yards and 10 tds is irreplaceable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Giantsfan241
    replied
    If you're trying to say Miles Austin, Wes Welker, Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall, Jennings, Nelson, Colston wouldn't step in here and be football players that can score 10 tds and get 1000 yards you're nuts lol. And you're crazy comparing the first 3 seasons, who cares? Wes Welker is a far more accomplished WR than Cruz is right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • DIPSET_ALL_DAY
    replied
    Originally posted by Mod_C View Post
    We're running out of meaningful NEW conversation here, yes?
    AHHAHAH

    Leave a comment:


  • Mod_C
    replied
    Originally posted by Giantsfan241 View Post
    You are just a clueless "omg cruz is so good hes so explosive best slot in the league omg" when really he didnt have that good of a year, lol, a few break out games but the rest have been average or abysmall.
    We're running out of meaningful NEW conversation here, yes?

    Leave a comment:


  • Giantsfan241
    replied
    You are just a clueless "omg cruz is so good hes so explosive best slot in the league omg" when really he didnt have that good of a year, lol, a few break out games but the rest have been average or abysmall.

    Leave a comment:


  • Giantsfan241
    replied
    5-6 million a year is not that uncommon this year for a player like Cruz.. he is a good slot reciever and benefits only when Nicks recieves attention. If you see I said he shouldn't a lot of garunteed money. If we gave him 4 year 20 million deal 5 garunteed i'd be happy.

    Go look at my stats, Cruz had a very off here this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • gmen46
    replied
    Originally posted by Giantsfan241 View Post
    1) marshall 4th round
    houzh 7th
    jennings 2nd
    nelson 2nd
    austin udfa
    jackson 2nd
    welker udfa
    colston 7th
    steve smith (panthers) 3rd
    And a bunch of other late 1st round picks are great recievers. it's not hard to find WR talent in the NFL.

    Doesn't matter for the rest, you basically made the same points. I don't think Cruz's play this year justifies him getting a big contract,
    If they give him 5-6 million a year with the garunteed money not huge then I'd be happy with how Reese handled it.
    You're now arguing against yourself, so it's time to shut you and your absurdity down.

    You say--in so many words--that WRs of Cruz' caliber are a dime a dozen, "not hard to find" in your very own nonsensical words. Then you say you'd "be happy" if we give Cruz $5-6 mil a year". Aside from the super stars like Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald--and a few grossly overpaid receivers like D Jackson--that's considered to be very big money for "not hard to replace WR talent".

    So, he's either good enough to warrant a large contract worth 5-6 mil per year with a guarantee, or he's an easy to replace receiver. Which is it? He cannot be both.

    As for your list of good-to great non-first round receivers--terrific, you came up with less than a dozen receivers who fit that mold--out of 12 drafts (Smith was drafted 2001).

    By the way, Cruz has had substantially more yards and more TDs in his first 3 years (2628 yds, 19 TDs) than 3rd rd Steve Smith (Panthers) had in his first 3 years (2136 yds, 10 TDs), and Cruz did that while playing in 11 fewer games than did Smith in the same time frame.

    And, Oh yeah, with 11 fewer games and 9 fewer starts in their respective first 3 years, Cruz has 4 more TDs than did Brandon Marshall, with only 271 fewer yards. UDFA has a superior 3 year beginning to his career than these 3rd and 4th rd--and long time WR super stars--spending all but his first 3-4 games rookie year on IR. And you think Cruz is easily replaceable.

    Don't like that comparison, comparing apples to oranges, maybe? Let's compare the first 3 seasons of the 2 UDFA receivers on your list, highly respected receivers today and over past several years-----

    Miles Austin--played in or suited up 37 games, 0 starts, total 354 yards in 3 years, 3 TDs

    Wes Welker--played in or suited up 31 games, 1 start, total 434 yards in 3 years, 0 TDs

    Victor Cruz--played in or suited up 35 games, 23 starts, total 2628 yards in 3 years, 19 TDs

    Cruz will get paid.
    And he will get paid by the Giants.

    Leave a comment:


  • Giantsfan241
    replied
    failed to score in 8/16 games
    only scored multiple tds in a game once
    4% down in catch rate (64-60)

    welker a slot reciever like cruz had 67%.
    Only played like a top 10 wr in 5/16 games.
    ..Not worth the big money.

    Just said he had 3 of the 10 td's vs a lowly browns team in which he only got 50 yards that game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eliscruzzz
    replied
    Originally posted by DIPSET_ALL_DAY View Post
    I'm starting to wonder if he's actually Giggles.
    I know right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eliscruzzz
    replied
    Originally posted by JayMas9 View Post
    Guy had 1100 yds and 10 tds...without Nicks, pretty darn impressive.
    exactly...

    Leave a comment:

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