Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Think of how bad Tim Lewis & Bill Sheridan were...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Markroman View Post
    How do you blame an offense that scores over 400 points a season for last 6 years?
    Logic doesn't exist on here, so , no.

    Comment


    • #32
      Fewell is running a defense that depends on turnovers.....for what it's worth, the Giants forced alot of them this season.

      However the defense simply couldn't hold up against offenses that avoided big mistakes.....the Falcons and Ravens in particular.
      Last edited by joemorrisforprez; 01-22-2013, 03:37 PM.
      "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

      "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by KingLurker View Post
        Doesn't anyone think our offenses inability to sustain drives put more pressure on our defense then it could handle in some games. A bunch of times our defense came up with a turnover just so the offense could go three and out and send our defense back on the field.
        Can't blame the offense for the defense giving up over 40 plays of 20+ yards.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by BlueBlooded1979 View Post
          Anyone who thinks this was even a mediocre defense is touched in the head. They ranked right up there with Lewis's patented "Cover Nada" and Sheridians "Fire Me" defense. Being 12th in points allowed and 31st in yards allowed means something is very wrong with your defense. There isn't one good defense in history with that large of a spread. Any system that allows you defense to be pushed up and down the field sends the wrong message to those guys philosophically. Physically it just means you can't get a stop when you need one and you are banking on turnovers to even be somewhat respectable.
          So, if our guys are getting beat physically, does that speak more of the players performance or the scheme?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by NYG4lifeNYK View Post
            ... and now wrap your head around the fact that we just had the absolute worst defense in franchise history under Fewell


            I'm going to be sick...
            Feel free to be sick, if that's your thing.

            But "absolute worst defense in franchise history"? Absurd. Not even close.

            You're looking at yards allowed, only, and deciding to put a bullet to your head.

            The fact is that in nearly all other factors evaluating defenses, our regular season 2012 defense was better than our 2011 regular season, Super Bowl-winning, defense.

            Aside from our drop off in defending 3rd down conversion attempts (42% in 2012 vs 38% in 2011)--which I would argue hurt us far more than a few more yards allowed--our 2012 defense performed better than our 2011 defense during the season.

            In 2012 we were 12th in least points allowed (21.5/gm) vs 2011 when we were 24th (25.0 / gm).

            In 2012 we were tied for 4th with 14 fumble recoveries, vs 2011 we were tied for 7th with 11.

            In 2012 we were tied for 3rd with 21 INTs, vs 2011 we were tied for 6th with 20 INTs.

            As a result of these 2012 improvements in all key aspects of our defense--aside from allowing 7 yds more per game in 2012 vs 2011, and the aforesaid inferior defense on 3rd dwn att in 2012-- we were better in 2012 in "plus turnover ratio". ranked 4th with +14 (vs a decent rank of 7th with +7 in 2011), we were better in 2012 in net points scored/allowed (+85) vs 2011 (-6), and as stated above, we allowed fewer points per game (21.5) in 2012 than in 2011 (25.0).

            The reason these other defensive stats are important is that in many seasons, teams with inferior yards defense often make the playoffs not only because they may score a ton of points on offense (see 2011 Packers and Patriots), but also because these teams compensate defensively with superior efforts in creating turnovers (as we did this year), setting their offenses up with added opportunities which often result in more scoring, as did happen for us in many games this year.

            What hurt us this year, and what kept us out of the post season, was the oft-cited inconsistent team performances throughout the season. Obvious point, but seems to be overlooked often in the race to hysterically rant about which coaches and starting players we must "get rid of".

            Our defense was terrific in most of our wins, and was not as horrible as many insist they were in a few of our losses. Our Defense was definitely outplayed overall in the first game vs Cowboys, the Bengals game, the Falcons and the Ravens games. Those games were extremely disappointing and the lack of decent defense was at fault to a great degree. But we also could not do much, if anything, right on Offense in those games, either. Can't ignore that.

            On the other hand, we were in the first Eagles game, and the second Redskins game, right up until the final seconds of each game. I won't bash Tynes for missing the last second 53 (51?) yd FG in the Eagles game--he arguably should not have even been in that situation. There were a couple other plays before that desperation attempt that may have enabled a win.

            But the real killer for our season, in my view, was the result of the second Skins game. That game was winnable up to the last, and our 2012 offense--unlike in many of our close games in 2011--just could not pull it off. Even if Tynes had made an earlier FG attempt, one within his normal high-percentage range, that could well have saved the season for us--regardless of those horrendous Falcons and Ravens performances. Everything else the same, we win that second Redskins game, we win the division, period.

            Even starting a thread condemning Fewell and 2012 as the "worst defense in franchise history" as a joke would be ignorant.
            Last edited by gmen46; 01-22-2013, 07:32 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Yards per game is a horrible stat for ranking defense/offense, OP is overreacting, under Spags we gave up 21.9 points per game and won a SB in 2007, last year we gave up 21.9 and didn't make the playoffs...

              Edit:OP under yards per game ranking the Steelers were the #1 defense in the league and finished 8-8...
              Last edited by barran21; 01-22-2013, 07:51 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
                Fewell is running a defense that depends on turnovers.....for what it's worth, the Giants forced alot of them this season.

                However the defense simply couldn't hold up against offenses that avoided big mistakes.....the Falcons and Ravens in particular.
                Radio needs to make more adjustments on D, it's ok, we won't be mad.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
                  This is absolutely wrong. Settling for field goals all the time is how you lose games.
                  what?? lmfao. wtf r u even talking about? It is absolutely correct. we WERE 6th in points per game...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
                    Feel free to be sick, if that's your thing.

                    But "absolute worst defense in franchise history"? Absurd. Not even close.

                    You're looking at yards allowed, only, and deciding to put a bullet to your head.

                    The fact is that in nearly all other factors evaluating defenses, our regular season 2012 defense was better than our 2011 regular season, Super Bowl-winning, defense.

                    Aside from our drop off in defending 3rd down conversion attempts (42% in 2012 vs 38% in 2011)--which I would argue hurt us far more than a few more yards allowed--our 2012 defense performed better than our 2011 defense during the season.

                    In 2012 we were 12th in least points allowed (21.5/gm) vs 2011 when we were 24th (25.0 / gm).

                    In 2012 we were tied for 4th with 14 fumble recoveries, vs 2011 we were tied for 7th with 11.

                    In 2012 we were tied for 3rd with 21 INTs, vs 2011 we were tied for 6th with 20 INTs.

                    As a result of these 2012 improvements in all key aspects of our defense--aside from allowing 7 yds more per game in 2012 vs 2011, and the aforesaid inferior defense on 3rd dwn att in 2012-- we were better in 2012 in "plus turnover ratio". ranked 4th with +14 (vs a decent rank of 7th with +7 in 2011), we were better in 2012 in net points scored/allowed (+85) vs 2011 (-6), and as stated above, we allowed fewer points per game (21.5) in 2012 than in 2011 (25.0).

                    The reason these other defensive stats are important is that in many seasons, teams with inferior yards defense often make the playoffs not only because they may score a ton of points on offense (see 2011 Packers and Patriots), but also because these teams compensate defensively with superior efforts in creating turnovers (as we did this year), setting their offenses up with added opportunities which often result in more scoring, as did happen for us in many games this year.

                    What hurt us this year, and what kept us out of the post season, was the oft-cited inconsistent team performances throughout the season. Obvious point, but seems to be overlooked often in the race to hysterically rant about which coaches and starting players we must "get rid of".

                    Our defense was terrific in most of our wins, and was not as horrible as many insist they were in a few of our losses. Our Defense was definitely outplayed overall in the first game vs Cowboys, the Bengals game, the Falcons and the Ravens games. Those games were extremely disappointing and the lack of decent defense was at fault to a great degree. But we also could not do much, if anything, right on Offense in those games, either. Can't ignore that.

                    On the other hand, we were in the first Eagles game, and the second Redskins game, right up until the final seconds of each game. I won't bash Tynes for missing the last second 53 (51?) yd FG in the Eagles game--he arguably should not have even been in that situation. There were a couple other plays before that desperation attempt that may have enabled a win.

                    But the real killer for our season, in my view, was the result of the second Skins game. That game was winnable up to the last, and our 2012 offense--unlike in many of our close games in 2011--just could not pull it off. Even if Tynes had made an earlier FG attempt, one within his normal high-percentage range, that could well have saved the season for us--regardless of those horrendous Falcons and Ravens performances. Everything else the same, we win that second Redskins game, we win the division, period.

                    Even starting a thread condemning Fewell and 2012 as the "worst defense in franchise history" as a joke would be ignorant.
                    yeah but theres one huge caveat to all that, the 2011 D sucked in the regular season, they were a completely different unit come postseason...just bc the defense was better in some areas doesnt mean it was sufficient (which i dont think ur trying to argue, just clarifying).

                    and 3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      "3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense"

                      very true.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        The Defense was worse than the Offense for sure but the Defense wasnt the worst Giants defense ever . The Offense had its hiccups in 6 games they failed to score 20 points and they lost every 1. The 7th game they lost they scored exactly 20.
                        U cant expect to win games in this era not scoring 20 points

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                          yeah but theres one huge caveat to all that, the 2011 D sucked in the regular season, they were a completely different unit come postseason...just bc the defense was better in some areas doesnt mean it was sufficient (which i dont think ur trying to argue, just clarifying).

                          and 3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense
                          There was a huge difference in the Defense in games K Phillips played. In the games Phillips played they gave up 18 ppg in games he didnt 25.5. Looked like to me Fewell was willing to be more aggressive with coverage when he played

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ELI_HOF_NYG View Post
                            "3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense"

                            very true.

                            You know what matters even more? Point allowed. The primary function of a defense is, after all, to keep the other team from scoring. This years defense was bad, but the 2009 defense let up almost 5 more points per game. They still get my vote.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                              You know what matters even more? Point allowed. The primary function of a defense is, after all, to keep the other team from scoring. This years defense was bad, but the 2009 defense let up almost 5 more points per game. They still get my vote.
                              point arent allowed if you stop them on 3rd down and force them to punt.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                                yeah but theres one huge caveat to all that, the 2011 D sucked in the regular season, they were a completely different unit come postseason...just bc the defense was better in some areas doesnt mean it was sufficient (which i dont think ur trying to argue, just clarifying).

                                and 3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense
                                You're right about the pick-up in our defense in the post season. But I also think it's important to factor in their last 2 reg season games as the beginning of their defensive improvement, which I think you'll agree was a large part of the reason for that 6 game run. And is the reason I consider comparing 2012 season to 2011 reg season numbers as a valid comparison, as far as they go.

                                Yes, the 3rd dwn percentage hurt us in a major way in most of our losses, which I was trying to say was more meaningful to our losses than mere total yards allowed, which again, I think most would agree.

                                But I neglected to include another defensive stat which, like 3rd downs, is one of the most critical and in which we did rather well in 2012.

                                Red Zone scoring (TDs). In 2012 we were 4th best in defending the Red Zone. It was noticeable to me watching most of the games, that we had improved in that area. But I did not realize until I looked up the stat for 2012 that we were ranked 4th best with 46% TDs allowed in the Red Zone. That is huge, and would usually, along with scoring an ave of 3.5 more points than we allowed, result in at least 2-3 more wins than we finished with.

                                Conversely, we were 13th / 14th in offensive Red Zone scoring (between 54-55%), nearly identical to that of 2011. That hurt us in at least the 1st Eagles game and the 2nd Redskins game.
                                Last edited by gmen46; 01-22-2013, 10:48 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X