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Think of how bad Tim Lewis & Bill Sheridan were...

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  • #46
    Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
    You're right about the pick-up in our defense in the post season. But I also think it's important to factor in their last 2 reg season games as the beginning of their defensive improvement, which I think you'll agree was a large part of the reason for that 6 game run. And is the reason I consider comparing 2012 season to 2011 reg season numbers as a valid comparison, as far as they go.

    Yes, the 3rd dwn percentage hurt us in a major way in most of our losses, which I was trying to say was more meaningful to our losses than mere total yards allowed, which again, I think most would agree.

    But I neglected to include another defensive stat which, like 3rd downs, is one of the most critical and in which we did rather well in 2012.

    Red Zone scoring (TDs). In 2012 we were 4th best in defending the Red Zone. It was noticeable to me watching most of the games, that we had improved in that area. But I did not realize until I looked up the stat for 2012 that we were ranked 4th best with 46% TDs allowed in the Red Zone. That is huge, and would usually, along with scoring an ave of 3.5 more points than we allowed, result in at least 2-3 more wins than we finished with.

    Conversely, we were 13th / 14th in offensive Red Zone scoring, nearly identical to that of 2011. That hurt us in at least the 1st Eagles game and the 2nd Redskins game.
    every post u make impresses me man lol dang, you got one functioning brain there pal...lucky you. I hope to be able to make such a claim one day lol. but yeah I agree with you, as usual.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
      The Defense was worse than the Offense for sure but the Defense wasnt the worst Giants defense ever . The Offense had its hiccups in 6 games they failed to score 20 points and they lost every 1. The 7th game they lost they scored exactly 20.
      U cant expect to win games in this era not scoring 20 points
      Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
      There was a huge difference in the Defense in games K Phillips played. In the games Phillips played they gave up 18 ppg in games he didnt 25.5. Looked like to me Fewell was willing to be more aggressive with coverage when he played
      agreed.


      btw, you and gmen46 should get together and open up a website based on a sorta "football for dummies" theme. both you two, and a few others around here, really really know their stuff but more importantly can convey it in a way that can be understood by us "normies" lol...

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      • #48
        Originally posted by ELI_HOF_NYG View Post
        "3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense" very true.
        So was 3rd down offense.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
          The Defense was worse than the Offense for sure but the Defense wasnt the worst Giants defense ever . The Offense had its hiccups in 6 games they failed to score 20 points and they lost every 1. The 7th game they lost they scored exactly 20.U cant expect to win games in this era not scoring 20 points
          The defense was bad, but the offense was worse.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by gmen46 View Post
            You're right about the pick-up in our defense in the post season. But I also think it's important to factor in their last 2 reg season games as the beginning of their defensive improvement, which I think you'll agree was a large part of the reason for that 6 game run. And is the reason I consider comparing 2012 season to 2011 reg season numbers as a valid comparison, as far as they go.

            Yes, the 3rd dwn percentage hurt us in a major way in most of our losses, which I was trying to say was more meaningful to our losses than mere total yards allowed, which again, I think most would agree.

            But I neglected to include another defensive stat which, like 3rd downs, is one of the most critical and in which we did rather well in 2012.

            Red Zone scoring (TDs). In 2012 we were 4th best in defending the Red Zone. It was noticeable to me watching most of the games, that we had improved in that area. But I did not realize until I looked up the stat for 2012 that we were ranked 4th best with 46% TDs allowed in the Red Zone. That is huge, and would usually, along with scoring an ave of 3.5 more points than we allowed, result in at least 2-3 more wins than we finished with.

            Conversely, we were 13th / 14th in offensive Red Zone scoring (between 54-55%), nearly identical to that of 2011. That hurt us in at least the 1st Eagles game and the 2nd Redskins game.
            A big issue with the defense was the sheer number of big plays allowed. I think we gave up something like over 40 plays of over 20 yards. We were the third or fourth worst team in the league.

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            • #51
              As much as Tim Lewis' defense was doo doo, Strahan still managed to break the single season sack record under it and got DPOY. Sheridan had some very big shoes to fill with Spag's scheme. I feel that he was under an enormous amount of pressure and some people cannot perform under such conditions. I'm sure Tampa Bay will get better in time if they decide to keep him.


              Rudy was my side chick.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by NYG4lifeNYK View Post
                ... and now wrap your head around the fact that we just had the absolute worst defense in franchise history under Fewell


                I'm going to be sick...
                I share the same sediment. Bill Sheridan was given one opportunity while Fewell has been given chance after chance.
                Lets go, Giants!

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Drez View Post
                  A big issue with the defense was the sheer number of big plays allowed. I think we gave up something like over 40 plays of over 20 yards. We were the third or fourth worst team in the league.
                  it seemed like we gave up a 3rd and 20 or more at least 1x a game

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Drystt View Post
                    As much as Tim Lewis' defense was doo doo, Strahan still managed to break the single season sack record under it and got DPOY. Sheridan had some very big shoes to fill with Spag's scheme. I feel that he was under an enormous amount of pressure and some people cannot perform under such conditions. I'm sure Tampa Bay will get better in time if they decide to keep him.
                    ??wasnt that under Fox?

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                    • #55
                      Ah tooshe, Confused 01 & 02 seasons. ;/


                      Rudy was my side chick.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Drystt View Post
                        Ah tooshe, Confused 01 & 02 seasons. ;/
                        u might be right i was more asking. i thought it was fox...

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                        • #57
                          The defense is the main issue, but upgrading OLINE is also a must.. But its kinda hard to blame fewell, when he had to deal with tons of injuries and TUCK OSI and JPP combining for 16.5 sacks, which just isn't gonna cut it...

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                          • #58
                            As far as i'm concerned, PF played with much more of a handicap this season than Killdrive did. Webster, Tuck, and Osi flat out refused to perform at the level they are known for (it is unknown whether it was injuries or decline, perhaps both, that affected them). Boley, Williams and Rivers were both injured for a large part of the season, as was Canty, and KP as well. For the most part, PF tried to work with the personnel he had. 3 safety sets happened a few times (especially when KP was able to see the field), and while the 4-4 set that was used against the Ravens didn't really work, I have to give PF credit for at least trying something new instead of just going with the same old BS. Not to mention PF actually gave rookies a chance to grow and develop (Hosley, Kuhn). The ONLY thing I personally lay at the feet of PF is the fact that he didn't give any playing time to Ojomo and little to Tracy, even with regards to a rotational basis, and I still wonder if that was his decision or if TC overruled him on personnel (Ojomo was only active in one game all season, for instance).

                            Killdrive had a LOT more to work with. The only real injuries were to Brown, Locklear, and to a certain extent, Bradshaw and Nicks. Yet Killdrive forged on ahead as though they were all healthy. Moreover, giving Diehl play time over a healthy Locklear makes me scratch my head (although I feel that was TC's choice). He didn't let Wilson or Randle gain crucial field experience until it was too late, and pretty much NEVER gave Robinson a chance (is he REALLY worse than Bear Pascoe or Travis Beckum?) The system never changed as well... it was the same old predictable playcalling: throw deep on third and short, run on third and long, use low% deep passes a lot with no slants or screens, and the famous shotgun draw. The funny thing is, the games where Killdrive actually did show some spark of creativity were games we won in blowout fashion (49ers game had direct snap to Bradshaw, Saints game had a reverse to Cruz, etc., both fairly early in the game as well)


                            TL;DR, defensive woes are due to injury more than system, while the opposite holds true (to a lesser extent) for offense. Overall, however, there was a lot of untapped talent in depth that we didn't use.

                            I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite team in the NFL.

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                            • #59
                              I would take this year's D over Lewis and Sheridan's D anytime.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
                                The defense was bad, but the offense was worse.
                                This should be in red font.

                                I am not going to sit here and tell you the offense was great or even good but I will confidently say they were a little bit above average. The defense on the other hand was ATTROCIOUS. Come on man, how many 500 yard games did they give up? They couldn't get off the field. Who gives a flying fark how many point the give up if they let the other team control the clock and have multiple long drives a game? They were putting our offense in bad a position by having less time of possession and worse field position. When did you ever feel comfortable that they would ever force a 3 and out? For me thats a simple answer, NEVER!

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