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168 REC, 2,628 yards, 15.6 YPC, 19 TD

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  • #61
    Originally posted by GTGiantsFan View Post
    I agree with Gumby, I don't think Cruz has the physical tools to be a top 5 WR in the NFL, you look at the greats like Moss, Fitzgerald, Rice, they were all tough physical BIG wr's. Even the top WR's now, Marshall, Johnson, Johnson, White, Green, Nicks all tough big psychical receivers. While Cruz is an excellent slot receiver that benefits from having a top 5 and probably most physical receiver in the NFL when healthy on his team. He showed that he can't be an elite top 5 receiver alone, his physical set shows he can't "do it all". He is a niche receiver who is the best at what he does, and in a patriots like system can flourish and he post great numbers when there's somebody else to take all the attention off him and he can slip and slide like he did in year 1. He is not a do it all receiver like the elites in the NFL right now though.
    u consider rice a "physical" type wr like those other guys u list? i'd say cruz compares to rice way more than any other guy on that lis aside frm fitz

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    • #62
      Niche receiver? How about this play - lined up wide TD in double coverage against a physical CB.




      ...But I guess some people will always compare him to the 32 year old 5'9 on a good day Welker who can only jump 30 inches...

      Welker are two completely different players that both possess quickness.
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      • #63
        Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
        u consider rice a "physical" type wr like those other guys u list? i'd say cruz compares to rice way more than any other guy on that lis aside frm fitz
        He fought for the ball a lot more, jumped higher, better blocker. Cruz is not in the same breath as Jerry Rice though.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by dakotajoe View Post
          Niche receiver? How about this play - lined up wide TD in double coverage against a physical CB.




          ...But I guess some people will always compare him to the 32 year old 5'9 on a good day Welker who can only jump 30 inches...

          Welker are two completely different players that both possess quickness.
          Great catch, you know who also had a really great catch? David Tyree. Did either of them do it consistently? No.

          Not saying Cruz is David Tyree by any means, but showing two plays he had in the same year is not gonna change the case that he is a excellent slot receiver, but not a great all around receiver.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by GTGiantsFan View Post
            Great catch, you know who also had a really great catch? David Tyree. Did either of them do it consistently? No.

            Not saying Cruz is David Tyree by any means, but showing two plays he had in the same year is not gonna change the case that he is a excellent slot receiver, but not a great all around receiver.
            Jerry Rice had a slot receiver skill set. Slow downfield but quick footed and ran good routes.

            You mentioned how Rice could jump higher than Cruz before but it's doubtful given that Cruz has measured one of the best verticals in the league at WR at 41.5 inches. That's higher than almost all of the so called "elite" outside receivers. I can post another 5 videos of Cruz making circus catches in traffic but why even bother?

            What's consistent if 2600 yards in two seasons isn't? Calvin Johnson even disappeared in games at times and had 4 TDs less than Cruz. I think we'd all like to have our players make every play but it just doesn't work like that :/.
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            • #66
              Please do not compare the best receiver of all time to Cruz, don't be ridiculous. Rice had amazing worth ethic and Cruz can not even be compared to him. Cruz had 500 yards in 11 games this season, only had multiple touchdowns once vs the Browns. Come on, to compare him to the best receiver of all time is so far fetched.

              Rice was a better blocker, had the best work ethic in the history of the NFL, he had a sort of style of play that Cruz had but was better at it by far. He was consistently covered by the best corners in the NFL and could find holes all the time. He was a lot more reliable than Cruz, I wish Cruz was half the player Rice was but there's a long way to go lol.

              Is Cruz a excellent slot receiver? Yes. Should he get payed? Yes. He is not elite, and he shouldn't be compared to Jerry Rice when he had 2 seasons in the NFL and proved he couldn't put up similar numbers when he was the #1 consistently.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by dakotajoe View Post
                Jerry Rice had a slot receiver skill set. Slow downfield but quick footed and ran good routes.

                You mentioned how Rice could jump higher than Cruz before but it's doubtful given that Cruz has measured one of the best verticals in the league at WR at 41.5 inches. That's higher than almost all of the so called "elite" outside receivers. I can post another 5 videos of Cruz making circus catches in traffic but why even bother?

                What's consistent if 2600 yards in two seasons isn't? Calvin Johnson even disappeared in games at times and had 4 TDs less than Cruz. I think we'd all like to have our players make every play but it just doesn't work like that :/.
                for the win

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by GTGiantsFan View Post
                  Please do not compare the best receiver of all time to Cruz, don't be ridiculous. Rice had amazing worth ethic and Cruz can not even be compared to him. Cruz had 500 yards in 11 games this season, only had multiple touchdowns once vs the Browns. Come on, to compare him to the best receiver of all time is so far fetched.

                  Rice was a better blocker, had the best work ethic in the history of the NFL, he had a sort of style of play that Cruz had but was better at it by far. He was consistently covered by the best corners in the NFL and could find holes all the time. He was a lot more reliable than Cruz, I wish Cruz was half the player Rice was but there's a long way to go lol.

                  Is Cruz a excellent slot receiver? Yes. Should he get payed? Yes. He is not elite, and he shouldn't be compared to Jerry Rice when he had 2 seasons in the NFL and proved he couldn't put up similar numbers when he was the #1 consistently.
                  no ones saying cruz is on rice's level...at all. we're just saying cruz has a similar skill set to rice...

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                  • #69
                    I don't know another person who'd say Cruz is comparable to Jerry Rice.

                    Rice was quicker, more reliable, and made space for himself to catch the ball, hence being physical. Cruz runs underneath patterns and the D pays more attention to Nicks who goes deep, and payed more attention to Manningham also. Cruz finds space, and he does a great job at it, Rice made space for himself when he needed to.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by GTGiantsFan View Post
                      I don't know another person who'd say Cruz is comparable to Jerry Rice.
                      me neither. i know plenty of intelligent people who can recognize cruz has a similar set of skills with rice...

                      edit-u even say so urself in ur post a couple posts ago

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                        me neither. i know plenty of intelligent people who can recognize cruz has a similar set of skills with rice...

                        edit-u even say so urself in ur post a couple posts ago
                        Point I was making that Rice was more physical, do they have some similarities in their game? Of course, but Rice was better, and more physical, taller, could jump higher (in game I haven't seen Cruz jump too high, only one a few occasions), could leap down the middle catch it and run in stride.

                        When I look at Cruz I see an excellent slot receiver, the best in the game right now at what he does. He's had some great games for us, and has made some great plays for us, but until he can do it consistently I won't look at him as a top 5 conventional receiver.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                          theres a big difference with cruz and welker tho. Cruz is a legitimate downfield threat who can make contested jump ball catches...maybe welker can do those things too but for whatever reason is never used that way.
                          Welker is pretty much purely a slot wr. cruz proved hes dangerous on the perimeter as well as slot...
                          +1 id also like to add desean jackson is not a physical type, and hes not tall, but he gets paid good money because hes a home run hitter. Cruz is capable of hitting those big plays and he is capable of winning the jump balls too. I say pay the man. He has added a lot of swag to our offense and with him we are a lot more dangerous on offense.
                          Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
                            I'm not saying Cruz isn't a top WR. He is. And he deserves good money. It's just that if I need to pay top tier money for him, I'd rather get someone else. Cruz's skill set imo is far more replaceable than say Calvin Johnson or even Hakeem Nicks.
                            I dont think this is true. its a lot easier to find someone like nicks than to find a cruz. Quick, in 10 seconds name 3 slot receivers in the NFL besides cruz and welker.

                            Lol it would take you a lot longer to name 3 good slot receivers than to name 3 good receivers who line up on the outside. You probably dont know of any other good slot receivers. Honestly, there are a ton of guys now who can do what nicks does and win the jump balls. Randell showcased that ability later this season. And I can probably name you about 15 other guys in the league. Finding a home run hitter who can score from anywhere, and make people miss the way cruz does in the open field is harder to find in my opinion.

                            Calvin johnson is in a totally different league from both nicks or cruz. Hes a rare talent and there isnt another receiver like him in the NFL really.
                            Last edited by Marvelousmik; 01-25-2013, 01:16 AM.
                            Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

                            ~Big Mike~

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
                              I dont think this is true. its a lot easier to find someone like nicks than to find a cruz. Quick, in 10 seconds name 3 slot receivers in the NFL besides cruz and welker.

                              Lol it would take you a lot longer to name 3 good slot receivers than to name 3 good receivers who line up on the outside. You probably dont know of any other good slot receivers. Honestly, there are a ton of guys now who can do what nicks does and win the jump balls. Randell showcased that ability later this season. And I can probably name you about 15 other guys in the league. Finding a home run hitter who can score from anywhere, and make people miss the way cruz does in the open field is harder to find in my opinion.

                              Calvin johnson is in a totally different league from both nicks or cruz. Hes a rare talent and there isnt another receiver like him in the NFL really.
                              Are you insinuating that slot receivers are more valuable than outside receivers?
                              My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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                              • #75
                                Amendola is a very good slot receiver, I think Jennings can play the slot effectively, Nelson, Hixon, Harvin does very well in the slot. Hawkins from the Bengals is supposedly pretty good. Cruz does a better job than all of them though.

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