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Mara Won't Rule Out Osi Umenyiora's Return To Giants

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  • #61
    Let's stay on message folks

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    • #62
      Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
      Exactly cause Speed rushers rely on the QB progressing deep into the pocket, If that QB can step up in the pocket untouched then that kind of negates the speed rush cause the DE has to reverse back. If there is not dt pressure then I don't care who you have at DE quick passes, delayed runs and QB runs will kill the defense all day.
      But Des also go to the inside to get their qb not just the outside. You have to look at some speed rushers with some strength. This give them the ability to do more than just go around blockers. The technique is also important. Osi has none of these and is not value enough to keep at a high price.

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      • #63
        Osi is done, his act is tired time to let him go. The guy couldn't even take Fullbacks on 1v1 this year, why would anyone even fathom that this guy can come back and be effective?

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        • #64
          I don't understand the fascination with keeping ineffective veterans.
          Mood: WOOF!

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          • #65
            Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
            I agree with a little of what you're saying here, so let me ask it this way.
            Did JPP have a bad year this year as well? and was it his fault?
            personally I don't believe in the single blame concept, I think everything has a cause and effect, but you are right 1v1 situations should be won, what masks Osi 1v1 battles that he wins is when he gets blown by the runner to the inside lane he leaves un protected cause he is speed rushing the outside of the tackle, it is extremely more difficult to speed rush from the inside.

            But I hear where you're coming from, we will just agree to disagree on the matter, cause I think everyone stunk it up equally this year, and feel its very premature to just blame one person for a unit's failure especially when that person was not a starter. Not saying that's what you are doing but I have seen posts and hear fans do that.

            I am ready for Osi to leave honestly so these type of threads can finally go away. I always feel a need to respond to them.
            I guess we will agree to disagree and i respect your opinion because I do understand where you're coming from also. People love to dish out blame to 1 person, and they love to blame the coaches when things dont go right. I just think you choose the wrong position in this instance (defensive end). I am not blaming osi for the defense playing bad. I am blaming osi for osi playing bad.

            For example lets look at a few offensive positions. there are a lot of things that go into a pass being completed. First the line needs to make sure they block the guys in front of them. the receiver needs sufficient time to run their routes. the receiver needs to run the proper route and try to get open. The QB needs some kind of safe throwing window. The receiver needs the ball to be catchable. The receiver needs to catch the ball. now all of these things dont have to be perfect but the point is they are all dependent on each other.

            A pash rusher beating the man in front of him is up to him and him only. There is no excuses or blaming the scheme for that. You dont have to get sacks to be effective. If you cant push the tackle up field or get around him, then that is your fault.
            Last edited by Marvelousmik; 01-26-2013, 08:21 PM.
            Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

            ~Big Mike~

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
              I guess we will agree to disagree and i respect your opinion because I do understand where you're coming from also. People love to dish out blame to 1 person, and they love to blame the coaches when things dont go right. I just think you choose the wrong position in this instance (defensive end). I am not blaming osi for the defense playing bad. I am blaming osi for osi playing bad.

              For example lets look at a few offensive positions. there are a lot of things that go into a pass being completed. First the line needs to make sure they block the guys in front of them. the receiver needs sufficient time to run their routes. the receiver needs to run the proper route and try to get open. The QB needs some kind of safe throwing window. The receiver needs the ball to be catchable. The receiver needs to catch the ball. now all of these things dont have to be perfect but the point is they are all dependent on each other.

              A pash rusher beating the man in front of him is up to him and him only. There is no excuses or blaming the scheme for that. You dont have to get sacks to be effective. If you cant push the tackle up field or get around him, then that is your fault.
              You are so right. What makes it funny is that his production is not that good to be payed double digits or even 8 or even 6 mil a year. He is only a speed rusher and all speed rushers aren't good. Osi is overrated and wants a good amount of money. Who the heck he think he is?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
                I guess we will agree to disagree and i respect your opinion because I do understand where you're coming from also. People love to dish out blame to 1 person, and they love to blame the coaches when things dont go right. I just think you choose the wrong position in this instance (defensive end). I am not blaming osi for the defense playing bad. I am blaming osi for osi playing bad.

                For example lets look at a few offensive positions. there are a lot of things that go into a pass being completed. First the line needs to make sure they block the guys in front of them. the receiver needs sufficient time to run their routes. the receiver needs to run the proper route and try to get open. The QB needs some kind of safe throwing window. The receiver needs the ball to be catchable. The receiver needs to catch the ball. now all of these things dont have to be perfect but the point is they are all dependent on each other.

                A pash rusher beating the man in front of him is up to him and him only. There is no excuses or blaming the scheme for that. You dont have to get sacks to be effective. If you cant push the tackle up field or get around him, then that is your fault.
                Disagree completely, in our defense the DE's need to get a push from the DT's. That didn't happen this year, and it affected all of our DE's. do you feel that JPP's talent dropped off to the tune of 10 sacks less this year?

                I am not saying that we should pay Osi big money, but don't be mistaken into thinking that the defense doesn't work as a unit.
                #80

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Diamondring View Post
                  You are so right. What makes it funny is that his production is not that good to be payed double digits or even 8 or even 6 mil a year. He is only a speed rusher and all speed rushers aren't good. Osi is overrated and wants a good amount of money. Who the heck he think he is?
                  How much money does he want??
                  #80

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
                    How much money does he want??
                    A lot. Trust me, he wants a lot of money and thinks he is still good.
                    Last edited by Diamondring; 01-26-2013, 09:01 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Diamondring View Post
                      A lot. Trust me, he wants a lot of money and think he is still good.
                      The fact is, you have absolutely no idea how much money he is looking for. Nobody does, he hasn't said anything.
                      #80

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
                        The fact is, you have absolutely no idea how much money he is looking for. Nobody does, he hasn't said anything.
                        It's obvious he wants more money than the Giants are willing to pay him. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this debate.
                        Mood: WOOF!

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
                          Disagree completely, in our defense the DE's need to get a push from the DT's. That didn't happen this year, and it affected all of our DE's. do you feel that JPP's talent dropped off to the tune of 10 sacks less this year?

                          I am not saying that we should pay Osi big money, but don't be mistaken into thinking that the defense doesn't work as a unit.
                          You don't need push from the DT's for you to beat "your man one on one". Im not talking about getting sacks. Im talking about winning the one on one battle with the guy in front of you. The excuses need to stop. We've always had average defensive tackles when it comes to rushing the passer. Down in the trenches you need to win those one on one battles. Especially the defensive ends. Osi played bad and its his fault that he played bad.
                          Last edited by Marvelousmik; 01-26-2013, 09:28 PM.
                          Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

                          ~Big Mike~

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
                            You don't need push from the DT's for you to beat "your man one on one". Im not talking about getting sacks. Im talking about winning the one on one battle with the guy in front of you. The excuses need to stop. We've always had average defensive tackles when it comes to rushing the passer. Down in the trenches you need to win those one on one battles. Especially the defensive ends. Osi played bad and its his fault that he played bad.
                            Like mentioned before he wants to be a stater again, he will never be starting again with the Giants, that been said he's asking for long term " starting " contract, thats why he sees him self out of town.
                            " Success is never final, but failure can be " B.P.

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                            • #74
                              Not a big deal -- Mara will leave that decision up to JR and the FO. I don't mind Osi coming back either, for the right price. But if he does, I'd still aspire to draft a DE this year anyway.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Marvelousmik View Post
                                You don't need push from the DT's for you to beat "your man one on one". Im not talking about getting sacks. Im talking about winning the one on one battle with the guy in front of you. The excuses need to stop. We've always had average defensive tackles when it comes to rushing the passer. Down in the trenches you need to win those one on one battles. Especially the defensive ends. Osi played bad and its his fault that he played bad.
                                So did JPP have a bad season also, because they had about the same number of sacks. I don't think he played bad but according to your "logic" he must have.
                                #80

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