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Question for some of you about keeping Corey Webster

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  • #16
    Webster hasn't been perenially bad. This year was his first year since his early years of really being BAD. There are some on the board who believe that for every dollar we cut, we'll have an equal amount to spend in free agency, which is just not the case. We just cut Bradshaw, Canty, and Boley to get under the cap by all of what, 3 million? Cut Webster and we assume another five or so comes off. We have to sign our LT, top two WRs to extensions, and at least one offensive lineman. Corners are a premiere position, so another good corner will NOT be cheap.

    Simply put:

    1. The options for replacing Webster without spending more than what he's costing us cap wise are not plentiful. There is no Brandon Carr on the market this year.

    2. Webster is only one year removed from a pretty friggin good season. A season where he covered some of the league's best and more than held his own. It is not out of the realm of possibility that he can return to form in a contract year.

    3. Shortcomings in the secondary can be symptomatic of other issues, such as lack of a pass rush. I think there were times this year where this was clearly the case on our team. Bolstering the pass rush, which is something Reese is clearly going to look to do regardless could become a natural cure all.

    4. Even if you believe there are free agents better than Webster, they could decide to sign elsewhere, forcing us to overpay. At the end of the day, a seven million dollar cap hit for a CB that has been a #1 and could get back there is not that bad at all.

    5. There are two CBs that rate out to be first rounders this year in the draft. I'm a big fan of Xavier Rhodes, and wouldn't be upset if he is our pick at all, but this isn't a particularly deep class of CBs. You can always find some in later rounds, but usually with size or technique issues that make them vulnerable in their early years. See: Jayron Hosley.

    6. You don't get rid of corners, ends, offensive tackles, or wide receivers. Some on this board have pointed to Chris Gamble, who has a cap number of what, 9 million, is coming off of a knee injury, and Carolina is STILL trying to keep him. Premium position. You can't have enough good corners.

    Why are we in such a rush to get rid of Webster. I understand he was very bad this year, but he could rebound. It's not out of the realm of possibility at all.
    Last edited by Sosynciere; 02-07-2013, 11:32 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sosynciere View Post
      Webster hasn't been perenially bad. This year was his first year since his early years of really being BAD. There are some on the board who believe that for every dollar we cut, we'll have an equal amount to spend in free agency, which is just not the case. We just cut Bradshaw, Canty, and Boley to get under the cap by all of what, 3 million? Cut Webster and we assume another five or so comes off. We have to sign our LT, top two WRs to extensions, and at least one offensive lineman. Corners are a premiere position, so another good corner will NOT be cheap.

      Simply put:

      1. The options for replacing Webster without spending more than what he's costing us cap wise are not plentiful. There is no Brandon Carr on the market this year.

      2. Webster is only one year removed from a pretty friggin good season. A season where he covered some of the league's best and more than held his own. It is not out of the realm of possibility that he can return to form in a contract year.

      3. Shortcomings in the secondary can be symptomatic of other issues, such as lack of a pass rush. I think there were times this year where this was clearly the case on our team. Bolstering the pass rush, which is something Reese is clearly going to look to do regardless could become a natural cure all.

      4. Even if you believe there are free agents better than Webster, they could decide to sign elsewhere, forcing us to overpay. At the end of the day, a seven million dollar cap hit for a CB that has been a #1 and could get back there is not that bad at all.

      5. There are two CBs that rate out to be first rounders this year in the draft. I'm a big fan of Xavier Rhodes, and wouldn't be upset if he is our pick at all, but this isn't a particularly deep class of CBs. You can always find some in later rounds, but usually with size or technique issues that make them vulnerable in their early years. See: Jayron Hosley.

      Why are we in such a rush to get rid of Webster. I understand he was very bad this year, but he could rebound. It's not out of the realm of possibility at all.
      Well said.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by JJC7301 View Post
        I'd try to get him to take a cut, but would keep him at 7M if necessary for one 1-YR. I'm paying him for 1 more year based on what he's proven in his career. He's not old.

        How do we know that we can get a better corner in the draft? Someone who's ready to start from day 1 opposite Prince?

        Web had 4 or 5 excellent years in a row. I'm not going to destroy what's left of any depth that we have in the secondary.
        i do see what your saying about drafting a corner we don't know what were going to get, not only that we don't even play our rookies..... but we could get a better cornerback for that much money for 1 or most likely even less then that for one year in free agency easily. He really isnt worth that much money and he was never really amazing I would never consider him top 10 corner in the league, not only that he had to be considered 1 of the worse last year, and yes I know he was injured

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        • #19
          Yes you guys are right in saying last year was his first real bad year

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sosynciere View Post
            Webster hasn't been perenially bad. This year was his first year since his early years of really being BAD. There are some on the board who believe that for every dollar we cut, we'll have an equal amount to spend in free agency, which is just not the case. We just cut Bradshaw, Canty, and Boley to get under the cap by all of what, 3 million? Cut Webster and we assume another five or so comes off. We have to sign our LT, top two WRs to extensions, and at least one offensive lineman. Corners are a premiere position, so another good corner will NOT be cheap.

            Simply put:

            1. The options for replacing Webster without spending more than what he's costing us cap wise are not plentiful. There is no Brandon Carr on the market this year.

            2. Webster is only one year removed from a pretty friggin good season. A season where he covered some of the league's best and more than held his own. It is not out of the realm of possibility that he can return to form in a contract year.

            3. Shortcomings in the secondary can be symptomatic of other issues, such as lack of a pass rush. I think there were times this year where this was clearly the case on our team. Bolstering the pass rush, which is something Reese is clearly going to look to do regardless could become a natural cure all.

            4. Even if you believe there are free agents better than Webster, they could decide to sign elsewhere, forcing us to overpay. At the end of the day, a seven million dollar cap hit for a CB that has been a #1 and could get back there is not that bad at all.

            5. There are two CBs that rate out to be first rounders this year in the draft. I'm a big fan of Xavier Rhodes, and wouldn't be upset if he is our pick at all, but this isn't a particularly deep class of CBs. You can always find some in later rounds, but usually with size or technique issues that make them vulnerable in their early years. See: Jayron Hosley.

            6. You don't get rid of corners, ends, offensive tackles, or wide receivers. Some on this board have pointed to Chris Gamble, who has a cap number of what, 9 million, is coming off of a knee injury, and Carolina is STILL trying to keep him. Premium position. You can't have enough good corners.

            Why are we in such a rush to get rid of Webster. I understand he was very bad this year, but he could rebound. It's not out of the realm of possibility at all.
            +2

            Comment


            • #21
              The thing that makes his bad year even worse is that he is getting older. If he has a bad year after having a good three years and was only 27 you would say he has a good chance of bouncing back. Maybe he will. Some games he was bad and others where he gave up plays where simply perfect throws and catches by the opponent while he had good position.

              Comment


              • #22
                Webby will come to camp refocused, healthy and ready to play, making this discussion a moot point.
                Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                  Webby will come to camp refocused, healthy and ready to play, making this discussion a moot point.
                  a man can dream I guess.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The scheme he is in does not suit him or the rest of our dbs.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Lack of production on the line might have had something to do with this. Think that the Draft is a good way to go in this case...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Diamondring View Post
                        The scheme he is in does not suit him or the rest of our dbs.
                        Can u expand on that?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Diamondring View Post
                          The scheme he is in does not suit him or the rest of our dbs.
                          Can u expand on that? I mean its the same defense from 2011 and he played really well

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                          • #28
                            My ideal situation would have been to let Webster play out his final year, while simultaneously drafting his replacement.

                            First off, people like to throw out his cap number. The enlarged cap hit of 9+ mil is a byproduct of Reese restructuring on a backloaded contract. A contract of 7mil per year is a great contract given that the corner market today is yielding contracts of 10+mil per year for #1 starters. Corners are expensive. Even a middle tier corner in FA will be a significant purchase with no certainty that the position will be upgraded much as they acclimate to a new system.

                            Secondly, I'd love to draft his replacement, but I certainly do not want that to be the immediate fix. Regardless of the prospect, cornerback is perhaps the hardest defensive position to transition to from the collegiate level. Just looking at Giants previous history of drafting, selecting a natural talent while still having the luxury of easing them in is a blessing. Even just one year of Webster can be an invaluable asset that most don't have the foresight to appreciate. I was amazed [well not really in this board] at how many people wanted to see Hosley, despite him having a statistically worse season than Webster. He played in off zone almost exclusively at Virginia Tech. He still has a long transition ahead of him.

                            Lastly, it all comes down to Webster the player. I am in no way sympathizing for him. However, his game was never predicated on strength or speed so it's not as if his tools have diminished. Rather, his play as a corner was always predicated on how well he was mirroring his receiver, which he was more than proficient in the past. For whatever reason, he was having some mental lapses in coverage that veteran corners just don't don't have. I believe these can be amended. Whether Webster does or not is on him and Giunta.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Captain Chaos View Post
                              Lack of production on the line might have had something to do with this. Think that the Draft is a good way to go in this case...
                              we have what is considered one of the best lines in the league for years now, don't blame it on the line when there are other teams in this league that don't have a pass rush even close to ours and their coners cover just fine. obviously Revis is way better but the Jets have no pass rush. QBs picked on CWebb all year he was terrible. Don't blame it on the line

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                              • #30
                                Also those of you who want to blame his bad play on the line then Y don't you think that his good play was because our line was so great the years before???. I think he was exposed and because our pass rush wasn't what it was the year before he showed how average he is

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