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We're not keeping Cruz, no way.

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  • Originally posted by giant-4-life View Post
    I'm not worried about it.people who are smart with their money, do better. no reason to jack up our financials over one player.We shall see how much of a team player he really is.

    seems to me like he's being a bit prima donna with all this contract talk. Sure money is the way of business. I remember when we let steve smith go. I wasn't as cool headed as I am now.

    people, we will be fine. we seem to have a great scout team who finds the diamonds in the rough
    I disagree and think Cruz is truly special and easily the most explosive player on our team.

    That being said, if we can keep Cruz at the tendered price, he and Nicks can have a play off this year for who gets the big contract and who goes to a different team. As of now, Randle looks like a better replacement for Nicks than Cruz.

    For the record, there was a reason Arizona couldn't afford Boldin and Fitzgerald. It's impossible to keep 2 arguably top 10 WRs. I doubt Atlanta will be doing it for much longer either.

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    • Originally posted by JPP=BEASTMODE View Post
      Then we can use our other 1st rd pick for a wr or maybe a rookie free agent.
      As we've learned over time, the team does not always share our thoughts on draft selections.
      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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      • Originally posted by giant-4-life View Post
        I'm not worried about it.people who are smart with their money, do better. no reason to jack up our financials over one player.We shall see how much of a team player he really is.

        seems to me like he's being a bit prima donna with all this contract talk. Sure money is the way of business. I remember when we let steve smith go. I wasn't as cool headed as I am now.

        people, we will be fine. we seem to have a great scout team who finds the diamonds in the rough
        So in your opinion, if a player wants to be paid a salary that is comparable to other players that play the same position, it makes him not a team player??

        Why is Victor not worth the money that other similar WR's are being paid. It has nothing to do with team player. It's all business. I haven't heard anything from him that makes him sound like a prima donna. Actually, so far he is saying all the right things.
        #80

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        • Originally posted by giant-4-life View Post
          I'm not worried about it.people who are smart with their money, do better. no reason to jack up our financials over one player.We shall see how much of a team player he really is.

          seems to me like he's being a bit prima donna with all this contract talk. Sure money is the way of business. I remember when we let steve smith go. I wasn't as cool headed as I am now.

          people, we will be fine. we seem to have a great scout team who finds the diamonds in the rough
          We will be fine, no question. The question is when will we be fine? By most accounts, we are still in a position to contend in 2013. For two years, Cruz has been a major piece of the puzzle in terms of receivers having lead the team for the two years he's played. While I agree everyone is replaceable, including Eli, the real question is who and when. As others have said, and some others have argued, Cruz may not be as easily replaced in the short term as we'd like.

          John Mara has made the teams position clear. Cruz's handlers are asking for too much, they want to come to terms on a long term deal, they will apply the tender of a first round pick if they have to and they will continue to work on a long term deal throughout 2013. Personally, I think that makes it unlikely Cruz will return after he's a UFA, but stranger things have happened.
          Last edited by RoanokeFan; 02-02-2013, 07:07 AM.
          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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          • Originally posted by giant-4-life View Post
            Couldn't we just offer Cruz more bonus money vs contract money? I'm not expert of football finances but I have heard that a team could feasibly offer 20 mil over time and break it down as 15 million bonus and 5 million contract?

            I understand that bonus money doesn't count against the cap. personally as a cruz type of player, I would love more guaranteed money then contract funds.
            I was wondering that myself. I know the tender equals $2.8M for the season which is really not a fair offer for Cruz's talents. What I don't know is can they sweeten that in any way? We may never know unless another team makes Cruz a bona fide offer. But let's say no team is willing to cough up a first round pick. Can the Giants then offer him something on top of the tender amount as a show of good faith that they want a long term deal?
            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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            • Originally posted by giant-4-life View Post
              Couldn't we just offer Cruz more bonus money vs contract money? I'm not expert of football finances but I have heard that a team could feasibly offer 20 mil over time and break it down as 15 million bonus and 5 million contract?

              I understand that bonus money doesn't count against the cap. personally as a cruz type of player, I would love more guaranteed money then contract funds.
              The bonus money does count towards the cap. It gets spread out over the length of the deal. So if he signs for 5 years and gets a 20 million signing bonus, it gets spread as 4 million per year on the cap. If he gets released before the end of the contract all remaining bonus money gets placed on that years cap. Thus the term "cap hit".
              #80

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              • Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
                So in your opinion, if a player wants to be paid a salary that is comparable to other players that play the same position, it makes him not a team player??

                Why is Victor not worth the money that other similar WR's are being paid. It has nothing to do with team player. It's all business. I haven't heard anything from him that makes him sound like a prima donna. Actually, so far he is saying all the right things.
                Well therein lies what they're talking about/disputing. Comparable to who? They are even going to disagree on what version of Cruz they're signing

                v2011 or
                v2012

                Comment


                • Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
                  The bonus money does count towards the cap. It gets spread out over the length of the deal. So if he signs for 5 years and gets a 20 million signing bonus, it gets spread as 4 million per year on the cap. If he gets released before the end of the contract all remaining bonus money gets placed on that years cap. Thus the term "cap hit".
                  It all counts towards the CAP, but you are right, bonuses are spread out over the term of the contract. It's a very complicated system lol
                  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                  • That's all fine. But it's not fair to call Cruz a "prima donna" or "not a team player" until it is actually known what he is looking for.
                    #80

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                    • When contracts are concerned, there is no team. The league makes billions off of its players, they deserve their share.

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                      • Originally posted by Flip Empty View Post
                        When contracts are concerned, there is no team. The league makes billions off of its players, they deserve their share.
                        A point lost on many.
                        “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                        • I read this morning that Victor Cruz

                          said the Giants should pay him for his "activism, his brand and his community involvement." Ugh, where do I begin?

                          Let's start with activism. We pay people to play football AND produce results. "Activism, whatever that means, is on Cruz's time. Whatever floats his boat, is great but not worth a nickle to the fans.

                          Next, his brand. I think young Mr. Cruz has this one backward. His so called "brand" is greatly enhance by the team he plays for and the city where that team plays. If anyone is going to pay for the brand, it would be Cruz giving the NYG a discount because he can build that post football brand bigger and better here than he ever could in Kansas City for example. That brand should be worth more to him when his playing days are over.

                          Lastly, the community involvement comment. Every play should do a certain amount of that as part of their responsibility to the team, its fan base and the neighborhoods which support him/them. For a guy who aspires to being media savvy, he has jumped his train from the tracks.

                          It sounds rehearsed to me which means his handlers are feeding him the wrong words. He needs to take charge of his own life and fire a few advisors and begin to speak for himself. I can't believe that these are his own words, If they are we've got bigger problems looming.
                          No one remembers who came in second.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ruttiger711 View Post
                            Well therein lies what they're talking about/disputing. Comparable to who? They are even going to disagree on what version of Cruz they're signing

                            v2011 or
                            v2012
                            It's his whole body of work, not one season or an other. And now they add his 10 catch record in the Pro Bowl to his resume. YES, we can all say "it was the Pro Bowl" but no other receiver has ever done it and he caught those passes from three different receivers. It all factors into his NFL worth.

                            Victor believes he's a top receiver and it's hard to argue with that. How "top" will be determined by the market. I think he's a top 10 - 15 receiver.
                            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                              It's his whole body of work, not one season or an other. And now they add his 10 catch record in the Pro Bowl to his resume. YES, we can all say "it was the Pro Bowl" but no other receiver has ever done it and he caught those passes from three different receivers. It all factors into his NFL worth.

                              Victor believes he's a top receiver and it's hard to argue with that. How "top" will be determined by the market. I think he's a top 10 - 15 receiver.
                              Top 10-15 seems about right to me.
                              No one remembers who came in second.

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                              • I agree with the majority of the posters here that they need to sign Cruz... but within reason. They are already over cap as it is. If Cruz is seeking 10 mill a year, is he worth that much to the Giants? Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, in this case if they spend 10 mill a year for him that means they will not have that money to retain other free agents or sign much needed help in other areas. What is more important, linemen to protect your QB so he can throw the ball or the WR? How much will Cruz accomplish if his QB is lying on his back?

                                It all starts in the trenches, and I think most would agree that the OL had it's issues last year. Locklear, Beatty, and Boothe are also free agents. Lose them and keeping Cruz on the roster will make absolutely no difference. Signing those three doesn't fix the O-line problem, it just keeps it from getting worse, ultimately they need to go out and get additional help.
                                My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

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