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We're not keeping Cruz, no way.

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  • Isn't Cruz under contract this year? Think at this point is to let him play out his rookie contract and see what is production is this season. If its good then they'll either pay him or let him go, if it drops again this year then he may be more reasonably priced. Nicks on the other hand is a FA who has had injury issues.

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    • Originally posted by Captain Chaos View Post
      Isn't Cruz under contract this year? Think at this point is to let him play out his rookie contract and see what is production is this season. If its good then they'll either pay him or let him go, if it drops again this year then he may be more reasonably priced. Nicks on the other hand is a FA who has had injury issues.
      No, he's an RFA. Nicks is still under contract until 2014
      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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      • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
        I don’t think I would categorize Hakeem Nicks as injury prone. The issue is that he comes back early. Now, I don’t know if that is by his insistence or the coaches and coordinators needing him back and pushing him to come back early. Either way, Hakeem Nicks does need to have some time to heal and the fact that he comes back so early is indicative of how important he truly is to this offense.

        I look at Hakeem Nicks as our Number 1 Receiver and although I really, really want both he and Victor to remain as NY Giants, Hakeem is our 1ST priority IMO. He is very physical and when he is in the game, he gets the attention from the oppossing teams top cover guy. Also, he takes big hits and doesn’t let it rattle his game. We can’t really say that about Victor. Victor Cruz as great as he is does have some seriously costly drops and he did “short arm” it this year when we needed him to step up.
        +1
        No one remembers who came in second.

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        • the difficulty right now is if Nicks can't get and stay healthy, which you have to consider, what should we do? Both of these receivers are made much better playing together, and neither seem to have the ability to play as well alone.

          So how much do you play an often injuried physical tough receiver, and how much do you pay a fast slot receiver who does everything a team could want on and off the field.

          Cruz' agent is doing exactly what i would do in that situation, ask for at least $10 million.

          The Mara comments to the press about Cruz wasn't an accident. That was a "i support Reese and don't believe the hype from your agent that i don't" kinda situation.

          We'll tender him this season. there's no way they work out a deal.
          sigpic

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          • Originally posted by BuffyBlueII View Post
            I don’t think I would categorize Hakeem Nicks as injury prone. The issue is that he comes back early. Now, I don’t know if that is by his insistence or the coaches and coordinators needing him back and pushing him to come back early. Either way, Hakeem Nicks does need to have some time to heal and the fact that he comes back so early is indicative of how important he truly is to this offense.

            I look at Hakeem Nicks as our Number 1 Receiver and although I really, really want both he and Victor to remain as NY Giants, Hakeem is our 1ST priority IMO. He is very physical and when he is in the game, he gets the attention from the oppossing teams top cover guy. Also, he takes big hits and doesn’t let it rattle his game. We can’t really say that about Victor. Victor Cruz as great as he is does have some seriously costly drops and he did “short arm” it this year when we needed him to step up.
            its just semantics at this point (injury prone vs injury problems), but injuries are a problem with Nicks.

            he can be your #1 priority, and i agree that Nicks is harder to replace than Cruz, but neither is easy to replace.

            Fact of the matter is we can't pay both these wide receivers what they're probably worth on the market and stay under the cap. its just math.

            with a $20 million QB, you can't tie roughly 30% of your cap on 3 players (Eli, Cruz, Nicks = $20, $10, $10, assuming a $125 cap).

            so just like we couldn't keep 3 DEs at starting NFL level salaries (osi, Tuck, JPP), we can't keep both WRs at what they could get on the open market.
            sigpic

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            • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
              But they can't both have that much. Reese gets paid big bucks to get and keep talent. He's earning his money this season

              If there is that much separation between Nicks and Cruz (I'm still not sure that's the case) then Nicks is rightly going to demand more. Most folks here seem to think a top 5 - 10 receiver can command $8-10M or more. If they do that for Nicks, Cruz will be gone after 2014 because they won't have the money to keep him IF he has another 1,000+ yard season he will be sought after by a few teams.
              I think the Giants can get Nicks a little cheaper right now because he is coming off an injury. I think rolling the dice on him now can save this team money down the road like Justin Tucks deal.

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              • Originally posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
                its just semantics at this point (injury prone vs injury problems), but injuries are a problem with Nicks.

                he can be your #1 priority, and i agree that Nicks is harder to replace than Cruz, but neither is easy to replace.

                Fact of the matter is we can't pay both these wide receivers what they're probably worth on the market and stay under the cap. its just math.

                with a $20 million QB, you can't tie roughly 30% of your cap on 3 players (Eli, Cruz, Nicks = $20, $10, $10, assuming a $125 cap).

                so just like we couldn't keep 3 DEs at starting NFL level salaries (osi, Tuck, JPP), we can't keep both WRs at what they could get on the open market.
                Nicks wont get 10 coming off an injury. A stupid team with trouble selling tickets may give Cruz that much because he brings in fans. If im the Giants I dont think id go higher than 4 -5 years 30- 37 million with 15- 20 guaranteed for Cruz

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                • Originally posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
                  the difficulty right now is if Nicks can't get and stay healthy, which you have to consider, what should we do? Both of these receivers are made much better playing together, and neither seem to have the ability to play as well alone.

                  So how much do you play an often injuried physical tough receiver, and how much do you pay a fast slot receiver who does everything a team could want on and off the field.

                  Cruz' agent is doing exactly what i would do in that situation, ask for at least $10 million.

                  The Mara comments to the press about Cruz wasn't an accident. That was a "i support Reese and don't believe the hype from your agent that i don't" kinda situation.

                  We'll tender him this season. there's no way they work out a deal.

                  And that may well end Cruz's time here with the Giants. Everyone is entitled to a fair payday. Cruz hasn't had that for two years due to his contract and that's the way it goes when you're under contract. And while he may not be worth his asking price, whatever that is, he is clearly worth more than the $2.789 M a tender is going to bring him for 2013.

                  So, if they can't come to terms, he will be underpaid for the third year in a row and, from his vantage point, that would make 2014 his audition for another team that is willing/able to offer him a contract reflective of his skills. Should he have a third consecutive 1,000+ yard season in 2013, he won't be unemployed.
                  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                  • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                    Nicks wont get 10 coming off an injury. A stupid team with trouble selling tickets may give Cruz that much because he brings in fans. If im the Giants I dont think id go higher than 4 -5 years 30- 37 million with 15- 20 guaranteed for Cruz
                    5/37 with 20 guaranteed would be a fair offer. They would throw in workout bonuses and incentives to sweeten the deal.
                    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                    • Originally posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
                      its just semantics at this point (injury prone vs injury problems), but injuries are a problem with Nicks.

                      he can be your #1 priority, and i agree that Nicks is harder to replace than Cruz, but neither is easy to replace.

                      Fact of the matter is we can't pay both these wide receivers what they're probably worth on the market and stay under the cap. its just math.

                      with a $20 million QB, you can't tie roughly 30% of your cap on 3 players (Eli, Cruz, Nicks = $20, $10, $10, assuming a $125 cap).

                      so just like we couldn't keep 3 DEs at starting NFL level salaries (osi, Tuck, JPP), we can't keep both WRs at what they could get on the open market
                      .

                      Sad, but true. However it works out, Reese has made a masterful move pitting Nicks against Cruz. KUDOS to Reese.
                      Last edited by RoanokeFan; 02-04-2013, 08:02 AM.
                      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                      • Would the Giants be better with Nicks, JJ, and Randle or Cruz, Randle, and JJ?

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                        • Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
                          Would the Giants be better with Nicks, JJ, and Randle or Cruz, Randle, and JJ?
                          Can't really answer that question. We don't really know what Randle will become yet,
                          #80

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                          • Originally posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
                            Can't really answer that question. We don't really know what Randle will become yet,
                            I think we have a pretty good idea though that he has a very high floor.
                            Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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                            • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                              I think we have a pretty good idea though that he has a very high floor.
                              Agree. That's what they may be thinking. Keep Nicks and hope he stays healthy, see Randle become the player they where so happy o draft, and get JJ on the field.

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                              • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                                But they can't both have that much. Reese gets paid big bucks to get and keep talent. He's earning his money this season

                                If there is that much separation between Nicks and Cruz (I'm still not sure that's the case) then Nicks is rightly going to demand more. Most folks here seem to think a top 5 - 10 receiver can command $8-10M or more. If they do that for Nicks, Cruz will be gone after 2014 because they won't have the money to keep him IF he has another 1,000+ yard season he will be sought after by a few teams.
                                And this is where you're wrong. Reese's job is to find talent and find value. When a player far exceeds his value, he's no longer worth keeping on the team. Keeping talent gets you nowhere but salary cap hell.
                                http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
                                http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
                                http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

                                Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

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