Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

We're not keeping Cruz, no way.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    Well if Cruz plays next season as a RFA he is far more likely to walk when that season ends. That's the incentive for the giants to lock him up long term
    On this I agree. If they tender Cruz, in essence getting him to play for one year at chump change, he's being slapped in the face. So he needs to suck it up, play lights out, and go elsewhere in 2014 where his talents would be properly compensated. If the reason Reese can't pay a fair market amount is the CAP, so be it. If he just wants to get Cruz cheap for another year, that's pathetic IMO. I don't think Reese will do that. I think he will make a legitimate offer.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Mercury View Post
      Wouldn't Cruz's agent want to at the very least see what offers are put on the table from other teams? Since other teams can't make offers yet, the negotitations with the Giants aren't going to move along.
      Probably but I doubt they will get anything too far out of the ballpark of realism since they'll have to surrender a 1st rounder too. Very hard to win those sort of deals when you drop $10mil kind of cash and give up a potentially valuable future player.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Mercury View Post
        Wouldn't Cruz's agent want to at the very least see what offers are put on the table from other teams? Since other teams can't make offers yet, the negotitations with the Giants aren't going to move along.
        Yes, Reese is the one who shouldn't want that to happen
        “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
          Slip, where did Cruz say they "agreed to disagree." We don't have a clue how far apart they might be, nor do we know anyone walked away. Reese, as you pointed out, can simply put a tender on Cruz. When/if that happens, then you can say the team "walked away" from negotiations. You've put Cruz's offer higher than anyone else at $13 - 15M. The franchise tag for a WR is $10+M.

          Again, these are all assumptions.
          https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...y5X4hlk8iHHhpw

          As for the numbers, Calvin Johnson gets $16 a year. Fitz gets $15.
          As I said. Upper high end is $15 a year or more.

          Cruz I would think wants somewhere around 13 or so. Maybe a bit less like $12

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
            https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...y5X4hlk8iHHhpw

            As for the numbers, Calvin Johnson gets $16 a year. Fitz gets $15.
            As I said. Upper high end is $15 a year or more.

            Cruz I would think wants somewhere around 13 or so. Maybe a bit less like $12

            Still as assumption
            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
              On this I agree. If they tender Cruz, in essence getting him to play for one year at chump change, he's being slapped in the face. So he needs to suck it up, play lights out, and go elsewhere in 2014 where his talents would be properly compensated. If the reason Reese can't pay a fair market amount is the CAP, so be it. If he just wants to get Cruz cheap for another year, that's pathetic IMO. I don't think Reese will do that. I think he will make a legitimate offer.
              Cap room isn't the problem. They have the cap room to resign him to $16 a year. But the giants are not willing to over pay their own FAs. Never have under Reese. They will offer fair value and if the player walks, so be it. Find a replacement.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                Right. And they talked for a little while, got the structure of it done. Then there was seemingly no movement on price.

                So both sides agreed to disagree and walked away.

                I would assume if they were relatively close, let's say 2-3 million per year it isn't overly significant and they could continue talking. But 5+ is a non starter.

                But Reese has made it very clear with his own FAs that he offers them what he believes to be a fair deal and if the players don't take it, he lets them walk.
                Want a better way to look at it?

                If I have one deal I consider a "must have", then I am going to want to know the maximum amount I can muster to get it done.

                And as important as that deal may be, I would have to get a lot of little deals done to know that maximum amount.

                Short hand...sign everyone else and see whats left.

                Cruz isn't in a hurry because that is exactly what his agent told him, "the gravy train is coming, just need to see how big your biscuit wheels will be"
                eli acted a little spoiled , he isnt a team player. he cares about his career only as he did during the 2004 draft. he did not mentor webb …Harooni

                i have to look it up i think a few starting qb's have sat out a few games once eliminated…Harooni

                Comment


                • #53
                  Nobody know what Cruz is asking for and nobody knows what Reese is willing to pay him. However, there is one thing that is very safe to assume. His agent is going to compare his clients numbers to other WR's and he is going to ask the Giants for a contract that is comparable to those that other WR's with similar stats have already signed. That's pretty much how this works. It has nothing to do with Cruz' personality or the fact that the Giants gave him his big break. It has to do with the market that has been set by his peers.
                  #80

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                    I didn't say anything about the structure of Browns deal. Just the total value.
                    You know as well as I that the "total deal" in NFL contracts mean absolutely nothing. Its about guaranteed money and how many years the team has control of the player.
                    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
                      Want a better way to look at it?

                      If I have one deal I consider a "must have", then I am going to want to know the maximum amount I can muster to get it done.

                      And as important as that deal may be, I would have to get a lot of little deals done to know that maximum amount.

                      Short hand...sign everyone else and see whats left.

                      Cruz isn't in a hurry because that is exactly what his agent told him, "the gravy train is coming, just need to see how big your biscuit wheels will be"
                      Problem with this theory is the Steve smith story. Smith was offered the "biggest contract of any giants WR in history" yet did not sign in hopes that he could make more money after looking at what other teams could offer. He then injured himself and his career is over.

                      I'm not saying players should take any contract given, but if the giants did indeed offer him a fair deal then he may regret not taking it later.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                        Problem with this theory is the Steve smith story. Smith was offered the "biggest contract of any giants WR in history" yet did not sign in hopes that he could make more money after looking at what other teams could offer. He then injured himself and his career is over.

                        I'm not saying players should take any contract given, but if the giants did indeed offer him a fair deal then he may regret not taking it later.
                        How do you know what kind of deal they offered?
                        I assume they offered a very "team friendly" deal.
                        Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                          You know as well as I that the "total deal" in NFL contracts mean absolutely nothing. Its about guaranteed money and how many years the team has control of the player.
                          You are making a separate argument. I'm not talking about structure of the deal. Just the total money. Which is what the two sides disagree on. The total money is absolutely important in contracts. Otherwise players would just ask for guaranteed money and tell the team to not bother with the rest.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Cruz's competition

                            Dwayne Bowe (Drops lots of passes that his team needs him in the clutch)

                            Mike Wallace (One trick pony)

                            Greg Jennings (Good but too injury plagued to compete with Cruz)

                            Wes Welker (You really want to give Welker a huge contract at 32?)

                            His agent knows he's the trophy girl of the group and they're going to see what else is offered before getting tied up with the Giants.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                              How do you know what kind of deal they offered?
                              I assume they offered a very "team friendly" deal.
                              I'm sure they did. Which would put the money at around $8-9 a season.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                                Cruz's competition

                                Dwayne Bowe (Drops lots of passes that his team needs him in the clutch)

                                Mike Wallace (One trick pony)

                                Greg Jennings (Good but too injury plagued to compete with Cruz)

                                Wes Welker (You really want to give Welker a huge contract at 32?)

                                His agent knows he's the trophy girl of the group and they're going to see what else is offered before getting tied up with the Giants.
                                Can't compare UFAs to an RFA with a first round tender.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X