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We're not keeping Cruz, no way.

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  • Everyone is replaceable, Cruz will soon find out that Reese and the Giants are not playing around. Just like everyone cried about Smith leaving, there is always someone ready to take your job, Cruz will learn sooner or later. Giants will not pay rubber arms ten mill a year, ever since that hit against Baltimore he has not been the same player, too many drops in my book. The only WR that is worth that kind of cash is Larry Fitzgerald. We can not pay Cruz 10 mill, then we will have to come close to that for Nicks, don't think the Giants will invest twenty Million on two player in the same position, and don't forget, Cruz was not the same player without Nicks on the field, he needs another good wideout on the other side to be real successful. Out of the two Nicks is the better receiver, if he could only stay on the field.
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    • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
      Smith took his best offer while he was recovering from a serious injury. Ballard was claimed off of waivers when the Giants wanted to put him on the PUP list. Cruz and the Giants are negotiating terms of a contract. Since Cruz is a RFA, they have a fall back position of tendering him, which John Mara has said they will do if the can't come to agreement and then continue to negotiate a long term deal.

      None of us know what Cruz has asked for or what the Giants are willing to pay him for a long term contract. Cruz is healthy and has been durable for the two years he's played. No one is "throwing the team under the bus." The team is wearing its Big Boy panties and won't do anything that puts the team at a disadvantage. You are blaming Cruz for something that hasn't happened.
      I think you have to fall back on the answer you gave earlier where the story the media perpetrated has grown to substitute truth. As was said, no one besides Cruz, the Giants and his agent knows what Cruz was offered and what counter offers were made. There seems to be alot of hate for Cruz based on reporting that no one has any idea that even holds a bit of truth.

      I think though, when the season comes, Cruz will be locked up for a long period of time and with a contract that will not impact us to the point people think it will.

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      • Cruz doesn't seem to lose it after taking a big hit. I like Randle as a bigger and more versatile receiver. Randle, Nicks and Hixon would be freat and Eli needs to work with and be able to trust the other receivers when these guys are banged up. We really need to have a couple of good tight ends. I think Eli can make any receiver with a little talent and toughness get the job done.

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        • Yes we are.
          2017 Mock Draft

          1st: Forrest Lamp, OG Western Kentucky
          2nd: Caleb Brantley, DT Florida
          3rd: Gerald Everett, TE South Alabama
          4th: Dont'a Foreman, RB Texas
          5th: Damontae Kazee, CB San Diego State
          6th: KD Cannon, WR Baylor
          7th: Jalen Reeves-Maybin, LB Tennessee

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          • More salsa people!!!
            2017 Mock Draft

            1st: Forrest Lamp, OG Western Kentucky
            2nd: Caleb Brantley, DT Florida
            3rd: Gerald Everett, TE South Alabama
            4th: Dont'a Foreman, RB Texas
            5th: Damontae Kazee, CB San Diego State
            6th: KD Cannon, WR Baylor
            7th: Jalen Reeves-Maybin, LB Tennessee

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            • Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
              Yea. And Cruz will get tagged next season. And play under it. Then move on to some other team after that season.
              This, Giants can tender this year and tag next year for around 11m. I'm sure Cruz doesn't want to play under 2 contracts like that. Agent's shouldn't pressure players to hold on for so long and risk injury.

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              • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                Oui, but whatever offer is made by another team, the Giants can match if they elect to do so or let him go and get an additional 1st round pick. That rarely happens, but it could. A first round tender only pays $2.8M. Not matter what one thinks of Cruz, he's worth significant;y more than that. A team who needs a receiving play maker and has lots of CAP space, might just out offer the Giants.
                Are there any rules against 'poison pill' contracts with tendered players? Something like 3/30 with 20 on the first so that a team under cap hell cant match??

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                • Originally posted by PRGiant View Post
                  Are there any rules against 'poison pill' contracts with tendered players? Something like 3/30 with 20 on the first so that a team under cap hell cant match??
                  No, if the give up a 1st, they get the player
                  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                  • Originally posted by PRGiant View Post
                    This, Giants can tender this year and tag next year for around 11m. I'm sure Cruz doesn't want to play under 2 contracts like that. Agent's shouldn't pressure players to hold on for so long and risk injury.
                    Seriously, if that's their plan, they may as well just agree to terms for a long term contract as they are admitting his worth with that strategy and purposely screwing with him. That would surprise me.
                    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                    • I think it's fair to ASSUME Cruz wants market value. I'm almost twice as sure the two sides have very different definitions of what Cruz's market value is. As a Giant I love Cruz, but I wouldn't overpay for any player outside of QB. Even if we have a healthy Cruz and Nicks, it doesn't guarantee success. I like Cruz at the $5-7 million/year level. I'd let him walk at $9 million. Yet, if he signs for $5 million I'd have to question the wisdom and ability of his agent. The fact is the guy has done everything asked and Welker is the only other slot receiver in the conversation with him in the NFL. We are going to have to pay the Piper to keep him.

                      I think the FO is waiting to see what they can do in almost all other scenarios that can help their Cruz negotiations, because they consider his resigning a priority. With Randle as the third option I feel less nervous about the situation.
                      Last edited by B&RWarrior; 02-10-2013, 08:52 AM.
                      Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                      http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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                      • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                        That doesn't make sense.
                        Um...yeah....

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                        • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                          Seriously, if that's their plan, they may as well just agree to terms for a long term contract as they are admitting his worth with that strategy and purposely screwing with him. That would surprise me.
                          Just pointing out that the Giants have the leverage really. I hope they signed both long term...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by PRGiant View Post
                            Just pointing out that the Giants have the leverage really. I hope they signed both long term...
                            How can you possibly state with any certainty who has the leverage in these negotiations? We don't know how much Cruz is willing to play for another team and we don't know what team is willing to give Cruz the world and give up a first rounder to have Cruz join their franchise. I don't think this is a negotiation where the Giants FO holds the cards. I would love to sit in this negotiation. I love this stuff. This is just like finance. JR may have the best job in the world.
                            Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                            http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
                              How can you possibly state with any certainty who has the leverage in these negotiations? We don't know how much Cruz is willing to play for another team and we don't know what team is willing to give Cruz the world and give up a first rounder to have Cruz join their franchise. I don't think this is a negotiation where the Giants FO holds the cards. I would love to sit in this negotiation. I love this stuff. This is just like finance. JR may have the best job in the world.
                              They "hold the cards" because of the ability to place a first round tender. BUT, as with Ballard, plans can backfire and another team can take him away by giving up a first round pick. Were that to happen, the Giants wouldn't be able to match the offer.
                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                                They "hold the cards" because of the ability to place a first round tender. BUT, as with Ballard, plans can backfire and another team can take him away by giving up a first round pick. Were that to happen, the Giants wouldn't be able to match the offer.
                                Yeah RF that was my point, another team takes our leverage away by being willing to part with a first rounder.

                                Are you saying that if they give us the first rounder we won't even have a chance to match their contract offer? We can't make a higher counter offer?
                                Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                                http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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