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We're not keeping Cruz, no way.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    You are making a separate argument. I'm not talking about structure of the deal. Just the total money. Which is what the two sides disagree on. The total money is absolutely important in contracts. Otherwise players would just ask for guaranteed money and tell the team to not bother with the rest.
    Thats simply not true. The out years are very important for the clubs. They have the leverage to restructure down the road. The player want the most guaranteed money and the trade off is giving the team more years.
    The total amount of NFL contracts are rarely paid. With the cap, so many deals are restructured. Even Eli's. But the clubs don't want their players with the power to test the FA market. Thats why they want the years.

    So its NOT about the totality of the contract. Its about the guaranteed money (what the player is looking for) and the years (what the clubs are looking for)
    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
      I'm sure they did. Which would put the money at around $8-9 a season.
      I'm sticking with my prediction that I made several weeks ago. I say it ends up being something like 5 years, $28MM with $12MM or so guaranteed.
      Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
        Can't compare UFAs to an RFA with a first round tender.
        If teams get a chance to offer, sure you can. Odds are that they won't get what they expect to receive due to the tender attached and Cruz will sign it.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
          Thats simply not true. The out years are very important for the clubs. They have the leverage to restructure down the road. The player want the most guaranteed money and the trade off is giving the team more years.
          The total amount of NFL contracts are rarely paid. With the cap, so many deals are restructured. Even Eli's. But the clubs don't want their players with the power to test the FA market. Thats why they want the years.

          So its NOT about the totality of the contract. Its about the guaranteed money (what the player is looking for) and the years (what the clubs are looking for)
          This is completely and totally wrong.

          Yes it is true that players rarely reach the totals of the deals, however, that does not mean they aren't important.

          I'm not sure what you are talking about with restructures but those do not change the total money. Just covert base salary to a signing bonus that is paid up front to the player.

          But as far as your Eli example, if the only thing that mattered was guaranteed money and length of contract then lets see.

          Eli signed a 7 year contract with $35 million guaranteed.

          He had an original signing bonus of $13 mil, had an option bonus in 2010 of $12.5. Then his restructure paid him $9 mil up front

          That's $35 million right there. That's all he should have made, right?

          Well he still of course had his non guaranteed base salary, which over those years was another $25 million

          So Eli has so far made $60 million on his $35 mil guaranteed contract.

          Base salaries and total money are ABSOLUTELY important. Even if they are not paid out in full

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          • #65
            Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
            Massive contract? Where do you read that?
            Fine print I guess.......so fine most of us can't see it.
            No one remembers who came in second.

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            • #66
              This looks like it will drag on to August.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                I'm sticking with my prediction that I made several weeks ago. I say it ends up being something like 5 years, $28MM with $12MM or so guaranteed.
                That would be very fair to the Giants. If it is good for Cruz, it's time to make that deal.
                No one remembers who came in second.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                  So Cruz puts a massive contract on the table. Then walks away and says they will agree to it eventually when they get desperate enough?

                  Yea. He is getting tendered this year and walking away next year.

                  Reese puts a value on guys and doesn't over pay them. Sorry Cruz.
                  doesnt over pay??
                  Baas
                  Canty
                  Rolle
                  "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
                  You couldn't be more full of **** if you were break dancing in a Port-a-Potty.......Kruunch

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                    Problem with this theory is the Steve smith story. Smith was offered the "biggest contract of any giants WR in history" yet did not sign in hopes that he could make more money after looking at what other teams could offer. He then injured himself and his career is over.

                    I'm not saying players should take any contract given, but if the giants did indeed offer him a fair deal then he may regret not taking it later.
                    You switched sides, and you did it in a way that is a sure fire way to see this as un-resolvable.

                    If Cruz has no interest in a long term contract with the Giants, then it is all a waste of time. There is absolutely no evidence that that is even remotely true.

                    There is every indication that a deal is exactly what he wants, and he naturally wants the deal that gets him every dime.

                    In the meantime, Cruz is doing the smartest thing possible: He's saying almost nothing. Remains upbeat and positive and talks about it being a process. All of this sends the signal that he wants this to work.
                    Every single day I log onto this message board thinking i've seen it all, every single day I am wrong...NYGiants2120

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                      If teams get a chance to offer, sure you can. Odds are that they won't get what they expect to receive due to the tender attached and Cruz will sign it.
                      Eh? There is considerable more value a team is giving up if they are handing out a contract and a first round pick than of they were handing out just a contract. It's a poor comparison.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by jomo View Post
                        That would be very fair to the Giants. If it is good for Cruz, it's time to make that deal.
                        I would feel like a chump if I was Cruz's agent and had that deal locked up lol.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by GameTime View Post
                          doesnt over pay??
                          Baas
                          Canty
                          Rolle
                          His own free agents. See Gibril Wilson, Manningham, Butler, Ward, etc.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                            I'm sticking with my prediction that I made several weeks ago. I say it ends up being something like 5 years, $28MM with $12MM or so guaranteed.
                            So you expect cruz will sign for half the money Antonio brown did??

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                              Eh? There is considerable more value a team is giving up if they are handing out a contract and a first round pick than of they were handing out just a contract. It's a poor comparison.
                              ...I already mentioned that earlier in the thread. My point is that Cruz's agent probably feels that he has the best WR in the FA class and even with the risk of the 1st round tender, it's worth testing the waters to see if a desperate team will roll the dice and overpay for his player. A tender doesn't mean that you still can't compare it to other players in the class.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by egyptian420 View Post
                                I'd be very surprised if we drafted a QB, RB, or WR
                                If a guy like Robert Woods slips to #51 in the 2nd round (and it's very possible), I wouldn't be surprised at all if Reese pulls the trigger just based on value alone.
                                "You killed my family, and I don't like that kind of thing."

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