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  • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    Yeah RF that was my point, another team takes our leverage away by being willing to part with a first rounder. Are you saying that if they give us the first rounder we won't even have a chance to match their contract offer? We can't make a higher counter offer?
    They CAN match I say they won't
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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    • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
      Yeah RF that was my point, another team takes our leverage away by being willing to part with a first rounder.

      Are you saying that if they give us the first rounder we won't even have a chance to match their contract offer? We can't make a higher counter offer?
      With a tender you don't have to make a higher counter-offer, you can either choose to match the contract or let them walk. I think the decision depends on the contract offered.
      My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

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      • Originally posted by brad View Post
        With a tender you don't have to make a higher counter-offer, you can either choose to match the contract or let them walk. I think the decision depends on the contract offered.
        John Mara has already made it clear they "won't break the bank" for Cruz. That tells me they likely won't match an offer.
        “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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        • Originally posted by brad View Post
          With a tender you don't have to make a higher counter-offer, you can either choose to match the contract or let them walk. I think the decision depends on the contract offered.
          By higher, I meant higher than our previous offer. I'm pretty certain Cruz would pick the Giants given equal offers.

          I want a ceiling put on the money spent on Cruz based on the money we will offer Nicks. Even with the injuries he was clutch in some games just as a possession receiver, and when he's healthy I've only seen 2 CBs (Revis and Asante) that can stay with him one on one. Cruz is a really good slot receiver, but Nicks is special when healthy.
          Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

          http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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          • Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
            By higher, I meant higher than our previous offer. I'm pretty certain Cruz would pick the Giants given equal offers.

            I want a ceiling put on the money spent on Cruz based on the money we will offer Nicks. Even with the injuries he was clutch in some games just as a possession receiver, and when he's healthy I've only seen 2 CBs (Revis and Asante) that can stay with him one on one. Cruz is a really good slot receiver, but Nicks is special when healthy.
            Valid question... but once tendered Cruz doesn't have an option if the Giants decide to match, Giants have the first right of refusal. But, your point is well made... we are basically saying the same thing
            My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by brad View Post
              Valid question... but once tendered Cruz doesn't have an option if the Giants decide to match, Giants have the first right of refusal. But, your point is well made... we are basically saying the same thing
              I got it. Initially, I thought it was up to the WR to choose in all situations, but I guess that's only for an UFA.
              Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

              http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PRGiant View Post
                Just pointing out that the Giants have the leverage really. I hope they signed both long term...
                They do, unless another team coughs up a 1st rounder and long term contract the Giants can't match
                “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

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                • I'd be curious if any NFL team has matched a first round tender for a WR recently.

                  As much as I love Cruz, I think an extra first round pick would soften the blow if some team actually stole him.

                  But, I don't see any team throwing insane money at Cruz, and then using a 1st round pick as well......I look at what happened down the stretch this season as a good barometer of Cruz's overall value...... when Nicks went down, Cruz disappeared against Atlanta and the Ravens.

                  Cruz is "Steve Smith + "...... but he's not the best receiver in the game....I think he's one of the best #2 WR's in the game, and that's very important....but not worth top dollar in the NFL.
                  Last edited by joemorrisforprez; 02-10-2013, 12:42 PM.
                  "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

                  "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

                  Comment


                  • No one seems to think Jennings will get franchised in Green Bay. Same with Wallace, who played last year on a first round tender because no team would pay him and a first. Dwayne Bowe just played on the franchise tag, and most likely won't get franchised again.

                    Those are three wide receivers who have been #1's and won't cost additional assets.

                    I'm not sure what would make anyone think Cruz wouldn't be a Giant next year at the very least.

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                    • Originally posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
                      I'd be curious if any NFL team has matched a first round tender for a WR recently.

                      As much as I love Cruz, I think an extra first round pick would soften the blow if some team actually stole him.

                      But, I don't see any team throwing insane money at Cruz, and then using a 1st round pick as well......I look at what happened down the stretch this season as a good barometer of Cruz's overall value...... when Nicks went down, Cruz disappeared against Atlanta and the Ravens.

                      Cruz is "Steve Smith + "...... but he's not the best receiver in the game....I think he's one of the best #2 WR's in the game, and that's very important....but not worth top dollar in the NFL.
                      I'm not sure you can blame Cruz for the lack of offense in those two games.
                      Last edited by RoanokeFan; 02-10-2013, 03:39 PM.
                      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                        I'm not sure you can blame Cruz for the lack of offense in those two games.
                        I'm certainly not going to call him the goat of that game. But the blame goes around. The only guy who showed up (Wilson) got stuck back on the bench, while the supposed go-to guys (Cruz) went nowhere.

                        I'm convinced those two 2 games made a huge impression on Reese.
                        Last edited by RoanokeFan; 02-10-2013, 03:39 PM.
                        "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

                        "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
                          I'm certainly not going to call him the goat of that game. But the blame goes around. The only guy who showed up (Wilson) got stuck back on the bench, while the supposed go-to guys (Cruz) went nowhere.

                          I'm convinced those two 2 games made a huge impression on Reese.
                          Eli has a lot to do with the potency of the offense from game to game.

                          In the Falcons' game he threw for 161 yards and in the Ravens's game, 150 yards

                          We sucked all around in those two games
                          Last edited by RoanokeFan; 02-10-2013, 03:45 PM.
                          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RoanokeFan View Post
                            Eli has a lot to do with the potency of the offense from game to game.

                            In the Falcons' game he threw for 161 yards and in the Ravens's game, 150 yards

                            We sucked all around in those two games
                            No argument there. My point is that he certainly didn't step up. Nobody did (except the guy that scored the TD and then saw one ****ing carry for the rest of the game).
                            "I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones." - Bill Parcells

                            "Name the starting linebackers from 2007." - Jerry Reese

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
                              No argument there. My point is that he certainly didn't step up. Nobody did (except the guy that scored the TD and then saw one ****ing carry for the rest of the game).
                              They got behind so quickly they were trying to catch up with the passing game which was non-existent. They tired a change of pace with Lumpkin who played relatively well for being on the team for such a short period of time. Nothing worked, in both of those games we had the ball on offense for about 21 minutes. You aren't going to win games that way no matter what.
                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

                              Comment


                              • This kind of situation is a consecuence of bad judge for eg the contract to TT was madness, please dont misunderstood i love Resse, but the year after win the SB he take questionable decisions.

                                I hope we can keep Cruz into the team.

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